Virgin Radio and MLS
It was my pleasure this morning to welcome Sir Richard Branson to Ottawa as they launched his new station Virgin Radio 106.9.
He is a larger-than-life personality who obviously enjoys the most out of life. I wished him luck on his Ottawa venture and I welcome his unique marketing flair to our Capital.
He had a busy day planned. After the press conference this morning, Sir Richard was heading over to Lansdowne Park to kick some soccer balls. Speaking of soccer, I had the opportunity to have dinner with the Major League Soccer (MLS) Commissioner Don Garber and MLS President Mark Abbott last night.
They are here to scout out our city for a potential MLS team and met with Eugene Melnyk and his executive team to talk about the possibilities. Yesterday evening we had dinner at the Westin Hotel where the Executive Chef Nelson Borges, who happens to be a big soccer fan, put together special gift baskets in their rooms featuring a chocolate soccer ball on a soccer field cake. The General Manager of the Westin John Jarvis also gave them a warm welcome to Ottawa.
Executive Chef Nelson Borges was obviously voting with his baking skills and made it clear he was a big soccer fan. Well done - you certainly made them feel very welcome in Ottawa. This morning we met again and they presented the City with a formal proposal that City staff will review thoroughly in order to make a recommendation to Council.
Soccer is a global sport and it also appears to be very popular in Ottawa. Where do you stand on this issue? I would love to hear your comments about soccer. Is it a good idea? Do you or your children play? Would you buy tickets to see professional soccer in Ottawa? Make your thoughts know right here on my blog.
Council has choices to make and your ideas are most welcome. Join us in the debate!
Please see below a press release I put out today regarding the proposal to bring MLS to Ottawa.
For immediate release:
January 27, 2009
Mayor welcomes the interest of MLS and Senators Sports Entertainment to bring professional soccer to Ottawa
OTTAWA- Today Mayor Larry O’Brien met with Ottawa Senators Owner Eugene Melnyk, representatives of Senators Sports Entertainment, Major League Soccer (MLS) Commissioner Don Garber, MLS President Mark Abbott, City Manager Kent Kirkpatrick and Deputy City Manager Nancy Schepers to review details of a proposal to bring professional soccer to the Nation’s Capital.
The City Manager has received a formal proposal from the group that includes a new soccer specific stadium, a hotel, a retail component, entertainment and community sports facilities. The MLS proposal is slated to come before Committee and Council with an evaluation and recommendation from City staff in early spring.
“The fact that Senators Sports Entertainment, Eugene Melnyk and MLS are looking at Ottawa as a potential venue for professional soccer is a huge positive for our City,” said Mayor O’Brien. “We now have two world-class proposals that see the private sector and professional sports wanting to help grow and improve the Nation’s Capital.”
The MLS bid comes at the same time as the City of Ottawa is considering another major development proposal, Lansdowne Live, by a group consisting of Jeff Hunt, Roger Greenberg, John Ruddy and Bill Shenkman who have submitted plans that would bring a Canadian Football League team to Ottawa and see a revitalization of Lansdowne Park.
As directed by Council, staff are still undertaking a review of the Lansdowne Live proposal and will report back to Council on their findings.
“We are very fortunate to have two good opportunities to build legacy projects in the City of Ottawa,” said Mayor O’Brien. “Now we have a responsibility to evaluate both proposals and make the best decision for the citizens of Ottawa.”
January 27th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Soccer is a great idea. What we should be doing is combining both the soccer idea and Mr Hunt’s ideas for Lansdowne. We should certainly pursue soccer but we must not repeat the mistakes made in the past when Scotiabank place was located in such a poor and hard to travel to location. Both soccer and football would be an excellent combination in a single stadium at Lansdowne.
January 27th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
The pursuit for the MLS franchise needs to be supported by the City. The fact is while it would be nice to kill two birds with one stone by combining football and soccer. However it wouldn’t be easily possible, FIFA does not allow artificial turf and having football games on the soccer pitch would destroy real grass in a matter of games. Secondly, it is finally time the area around Scotiabank place is finally developed into a world class area and this is the way to with Eugene melnyk providing the significant financial backing. The city of Ottawa has had numerous attempts at supporting a CFL franchise and they have all failed, it is time to try something else. I believe there is room for both a new MLS stadium and a revitalized Lansdowne Park.
January 28th, 2009 at 10:01 am
The only mistake (directed at Steve) that we must not repeat is with football in this City. We have lost the team too many times and have made a mockery of football in Ottawa. The facility that is chosen should take into account the long term benefit for the city over the next 20+ years. Scotiabank Place, despite the constant concerns of traffic is an ideal location - do you think traffic is any less hectic at the Bell Center or Air Canada Center (I know those arenas are downtown in major city centers)? Kanata is a flourishing community and by the time that Ottawa would have an MLS franchise, likely 2013 versus 2011, I am confident that with continued road work (which is already schedule to expand to Scotiabank Place) and increase infrastructure and routes with OC Transpo (I know everyone hates them right now) that area of this City will be booming.
January 28th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
The problem with Scotiabank place is it’s location. Nowadays, most stadiums and arenas are built in central locations rather than out in the sticks. When Scotiabank place was built it was common to build outside cities but even by the time facilities like the Air Canada center we built downtown was the rage again. It is best for everyone since it is the middle (shortest distance for all)
FIFA does also now allow the use of field turf (which the City of Ottawa has purchased twice for Lansdowne) Ottawa hosted part of the FIFA U-20 world cup on this very field. The only thing they don’t allow is other lines to be on the field. There is however special paint that is removable. I recall Cyril Leeder talking about this when asked about both teams using one facility.
Lansdowne is also very cost effective since we already have 3/4 of a stadium. A few million for a lower deck and some fix-ups and it is back to being the excellent sports facility it was and has been for 100 years.
On football: football in City of Ottawa flourished for over 100 years. The only reason it failed recently was do to very poor ownership, some of which was downright tasteless. Ottawa fans voted with their feet (the only way you can vote against a private business) and did not support these nut-cases. Football only failed due to owners not fans. There were always lots of fans.
The group attempting to return football to its glory has a much stronger reputation and in the case of Jeff Hunt, an excellent track record of producing excellent family-oriented entertainment for the city. When the Ottawa Senators were awarded an NHL franchise, everyone assume the 67’s days were numbered. Jeff Hunt purchased the team and turned them into the premier franchise of the OHL. He used the concept of affordable family entertainment. He marketed to mothers specifically and was very successful. This same model would work for football in the summer the same way it worked for hockey in the winter.
January 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I think the City of Ottawa should support an MLS franchise over a CFL franchise. Obviously, both sides have their supporters, but only one sport(soccer) is a world-class sport that attracts not only exceptional local interest, but also the international attention that we can use to promote our city. I see football (the “American” kind) as only ever attracting a local market. I think that developing a stadium in Kanata would also be more beneficial to Ottawa. The existing infrastructure and ample space that already exist there could be used much more effectively to create a truly world-class facility that Ottawa could be proud of and that could be used to effectively promote ourselves to the world. On the other hand, I see the redesign of Frank Clair stadium as being subject to limitations and compromises. Yes, it is a bit of a trek to get to Kanata (but that doesn’t seem to stop Senators fans!) but the benefit of being able to get 20,000+ people in and out of the place in an efficient manner far outweighs the difficulties of getting the same number of people in and out of the Frank Clair stadium site (traffic congestion, parking, …etc in a downtown location). Realistically, Frank Clair Stadium is a prime site for any form of redevelopment. So much so that if the city were to let the CFL bid fail, I’m sure that it wouldn’t be too long before someone else was knocking at the doors of city hall with another attractive redevelopment bid in hand. In short, the whole thing basically boils down to (1) do we want soccer or football in Ottawa? and (2) is it better to put a stadium downtown or in Kanata. Either way, one group of people is going to be very dissappointed, so I say let’s just do what’s best for Ottawa - and for me, that’s MLS soccer in Kanata. CFL franchises have failed so many times before in Ottawa - why are we flogging a dead horse? Mr Melnyk has shown us how to do things the right way before with the Senators. Now he wants to give us more. I say let’s help him do it.
January 28th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Soccer remains unproven in this city. We haven’t even had a USL div 1 team like other candidate cities (Portland, Vancouver, Miami). The Ottawa Fury that competes in the W-League and PDL barely get over a thousand spectators to their games (usually in the hundreds). So jumping right into the top league leaves big questions marks. Can Ottawa support major league soccer? Many have doubts. The U-20 was just one event. Can soccer get 20 000+ every game for years to come? Football on the other hand (specifically Canadian football) is a known quantity. Even with a very bad team and worst ownership, there was over 18 000 people at the game on average. The reason it failed after almost 100 years was very very poor ownership. This is not the case this time. The new ownership good is the best we have ever had. Lansdowne park is already there. Downtown needs to be revitalized and the propposal of Lansdowne live delivers just that.
I am not against soccer. I know there are some fans for it. But football is more part of our history and tradition. The CFL gets very good ratings on television, MLS however is still very much in it’s infancy.
And Ottawa has the largest youth football organization in the country (NCAFA) and numerous high school, college and University teams (plus the Gatineau side were football is exploding in the entire province of QUEBEC).
January 28th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I am all for having an MLS team in Ottawa, but this doesn’t have to be an either-or proposition. Lansdowne Live, and the return of the CFL are also excellent initiatives. Why limit ourselves? Ottawa has a great sporting tradition, and we should be thinking big and finding a way to welcome both ventures to the capital.
January 28th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Rejecting Lansdowne Live to court the MLS would be an enormous mistake.
Melnyk, in addition to loads of city money, needs federal and provincial money for his stadium.
The province built a soccer stadium two years ago in Toronto, and has another large stadium planned in Hamilton for the 2015 Pan Am games. This means a) they have stadium fatigue, and/or b) they are only interested in funding stadiums that are tied to international amateur sporting events. If either or both are true, funding would be extremely hard to come by from the province, and certainly wouldn’t be in place by April, when MLS announces its expansion franchises.
The federal government has been even more hostile towards stadiums, particularly as they concern professional sports. They denied a proposal (without even looking at it) from a consortium seeking a slight alteration to Laval’s athletic project in order to accomodate a CFL-sized stadium, even though the consortium was willing to chip in an extra $40M. The federal government opposed any funding for a football stadium for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers for years, and have only recently come around now that the project will greatly benefit the University of Manitoba (a contribution to amateur sport, which would NOT be included in Melnyk’s proposal).
Melnyk’s assertions of soccer fever in Ottawa are inflated, which is pretty apparent since he has solicited season-ticket interest without asking for down payments. He knows that levels of support would be all too real if people had to open their wallets. He’s not fooling Don Garber. The MLS commissioner has gushed poetic at every single expansion candidate city he’s visited. Portland and St. Louis have received glowing words, and been told the same as Ottawa: That they have a franchise coming to them as long as the government gets in line. He doesn’t care about Ottawa, he just wants as many viable proposals on the table to put pressure on the others to sweeten their bids. He doesn’t care that by the time MLS gets around to rejecting Ottawa (which you have to know is exactly what they plan to do), Jeff Hunt and his partners will have lost their conditional CFL franchise, along with any desire to redevelop and repopulate Lansdowne.
If Ottawa’s government has any sense, they will NOT reject a shovel-ready project like Lansdowne Live in favour of a dangerous roll of the dice. The Hunt group doesn’t need any new public money. They can be flexible about who gets to play at Lansdowne (unlike MLS’s our-way-or-no-way approach). Melnyk claims that his stadium will also hold concerts, which would never really happen since it’s damaging to the precious turf (just look at BMO Field, which has already hosted it’s first and only concert). Lansdowne Live is a sure thing, proposed by native Ottawans and representing a league that views a return to Ottawa as a necessity. Melnyk’s proposal is late, untested, unsupported at the federal and provincial level, and advocates in favour of a league that views expansion to Canada (let alone Ottawa) as an afterthought.
January 28th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
I hope Ottawa with such a well connected and classy group like the Hunt group is wins this battle. The long and storied history of football in Ottawa in fantastic. Sure, there were a few poor owners and that was unfortunate. But this is our country, Canada, our CFL, we are closing in on the 100th Grey Cup Championship in 2012 and I want Ottawa to be a part of our great league again. Soccer is also a great game, it doesn’t have a storied history here in Canada or North America but is a great game. Combining both would be great but if it an either/or situation, the Hunt group wins out.
I am from Hamilton and hand both the honour and privilege of attending a few Rough Rider games and a Renegade game and the Grey Cup in 2004 at Frank Clair Stadium, what a fantastic location. Sure, the facility was a bit old but a great atmosphere. I am looking forward to travelling to Ottawa in the future to watch some CFL football as m wife is from there. We are TiCats season ticket holders and love going to the games. Keeping my fingers crossed that our CFL wins out over the MLS, a league that very well may not survive long since it is an American based league that will constantly fight with gridiron football in the US for respect. Please make the right decision and choose our league, our trophy the Grey Cup, our history and our tradition and with the great ownership group you have in place!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Football has failed twice already in the past, personally I don’t mind trying to bring CFL again one more time but the focus should be on soccer right now. How do we know that this time CFL will succeed this time؟
I think having the MLS stadium in a central location is a better idea than in the suburbs. We want to make is accessible to every one in Ottawa to come easily, from Orleans, the South and everywhere else. Lansdowne wont be a good idea for the soccer stadium because no room is available there for the other training fields, but the stadium could be built near the war museum which is in my opinion an ideal central location, accessible by OC and there is plenty of room for all 5 fields and the stadium. Its time this ugly part of downtown is developed. I believe both CFL and MLS should have their own stadiums. Lansdowne has to be developed any way regardless of the CFL.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Lansdowne Park is already in place, in addtion to a conditional CFL franchise being awarded pending the Lansdowne Live go-ahead. Its a no brainer that the city as a whole should endorse this venue for both CFL and MLS (if the latter is awarded).
Football HAS worked for many years prior to this before bad management (not the fans) have killed it. We have the management here now, and as a big bonus, they are local.
Lansdowne Park is the only choice right now for football and soccer.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Soccer, unfortunately, does not have a large following in Canada unlike CFL football. I, personally, would not support soccer in Ottawa, and do not want to see my tax dollars going to build a stadium for an event that I and the majority of Ottawans would never attend. MLS has its own share of troubles whereas the CFL attendance and TV viewership have risen steadily over recent years. We have a CFL team waiting in the wings and a fantastic proposal in Lansdowne Live to develop the park. In the unlikely chance that we do get an MLS team, let them share it with the Ottawa Rough Riders at Frank Clair stadium. The stadium is central and could accomodate both CFL and MLS. I look forward to the return of the Ottawa Rough Riders. If Eugene Melnyk wants MLS, let him (and the small group of Ottawa soccer fans) pay for it themselves. Not with MY tax dollars.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Good Day!
I’m in total support of Landsdowne Live, and a CFL franchise for
Ottawa. Since we can only have one stadium, I believe Lansdowne
should be the perferred site.
Thank You!
Paul Sharkey
January 29th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Good Day!
I’m in total support of Landsdowne Live, and a CFL franchise for
Ottawa. Since we can only have one stadium, I believe Lansdowne
should be the preferred site.
Thank You!
Paul Sharkey
January 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Going to Kanata from Orleans for a pro soccer game is the last thing I would want to do. Although Melnyk’s plan looks good on paper, its not going to fly. He needs funding from both municipal, federal, and provincial governments to make this work, and we all know the hostility of governments putting tax dollars towards funding new stadiums. Just ask Halifax, and Quebec City. Plus traffic, and public transit needs to be addressed since his stadium is not accessible by public transit, and that it would be chaotic traffic wise especially when traffic gets clogged up on the 417 on game nights. Had Melnyk decided to scale down the capacity of the stadium stands from 30,000 to 20,000, and build it downtown (Lebreton Flats, and Bayview by the transitway) I would be in favour of it since those areas are accessible by the buses, and O-train.
As the Lansdowne Live, presented by four hard working local businessmen, the stadium is still there, but it needs repairs along with a new lower south side stands to bring it to today standards. Once the engineering report comes out, I am sure that the costs are going to be less than spending money on the Melnyk proposal. The plan is more that just football, it also includes greenspace, soccer fields, retail, hotel, ampetheatre, and aquarium. It is not a done deal though as this is just a proposal, and some parts of it can be negotiable.
People who said that football has failed here several times have ignored the rich history and tradition that the CFL has brought to this city in the glory days of the Rough Riders from the 1960’s, and 70’s until the troubled times in the 80’s and 90’s that ultimately lead to their demise in the mid 90’s. Then the Renegades tried to fill the void left by the Riders, but that too failed as well. Both of those franchises failed because of poor ownership, and mismanagement, not the fans. The fans still supported the team throughout the good and bad times of those franchises.
It would be a huge mistake if council rejects the Lansdowne Live Proposal, on the basis of the Melnyk proposal not knowing that the MLS bid is not a going to be a slam dunk as it is up against other bids from Vancouver, Miami, Portland, and St. Louis. The MLS commisioner also stated that it is not fair to award a franchise to a city that does not have a stadium. The MLS is pretty firm with deadlines as it wants their franchises to start up by a certain date, unlike the CFL which is very flexible with its deadlines.
If Melnyk loses out on the bid, where does this put the city? It puts them back to sqaure one with no stadium to attract events whether if its football, soccer, concerts, national or international that has put this city on the worldwide stage.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:01 am
Ottawa Rugh Rider Supporter
There ottawa soccer community is anything but small.Some would say its equal that of the football community.As for saying the soccer community should pay for it thems elfs.Well then the soccer community would say the football community should pay for there stadium them selfs.As for saying the majority of ottawa people would not go to ganes is way off.The team would get supported very well as said before ottawa is a big soccer community.Put it this way there is more kids playing soccer in ottawa then hockey.As for sharing the stadium nope can’t happen per mls rules.
Stephane
There were alot doubts about toronto when they got awarded a team.When they were in the usl division 1 they did not draw well at all.As for the fury that is a league muh like the ohl teams do not draw well some get 20 per game.Mimai againa teams thatd raws poor in division one and did not draw well in mls.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:08 pm
I recently read an article by soccer cheerleader Richard Starnes in the Ottawa Citizen. It contains some disparaging and inaccurate remarks by Melnyk’s bid man Cyril Leeder. Here’s a link to the article:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Shots+fired+stadium+battle/1237792/story.html
Wow, where to begin?
Engineers have thoroughly evaluated the stadium after the lower south side came down. It was declared structurally sound, and I’m sure both the engineers and the Hunt group know way more about the stadium then Cyril Leeder, who is not involved with the stadium whatsoever. And Frank Clair, while old, certainly has more infrastructure, roads, washrooms, concessions, suites, and seats than…say… a DRAWING of a stadium.
Ottawa’s team failed on TWO occasions, not three, and all was due to poor ownership decisions, not a lack of support. Before its first failure, the team prospered for about a hundred years. The closest thing to real evidence for sustained soccer support is the Ottawa Fury… in existence for a whopping four years, and who at the very peak of their popularity in 2008 enjoyed an average attendance of… 330 people…
Along with the Ottawa Gee gees, and if Carleton brings back a football team, Frank Clair could potentially host 21 football games per year.
The city of Ottawa has estimated that the Grey Cup brings in excess of $43M in economic activity to the hosting city, and Ottawa has been awarded the 2014 contest. The 2007 Grey Cup is estimated to have brought $50-$70M in economic activity to Toronto, on par with the World Junior Hockey tournament. MLS doesn’t have anything that could remotely compete with the Grey Cup, and none of the soccer events mentioned by Leeder could hope to outdraw the World Juniors or Grey Cup.
Frank Clair has hosted CFL games for close to 30k fans for decades, and transportation has always been good enough to bring fans to and from the game. The exodus out to Kanata for Senators games is a source of much complaint, for a facility of 20k capacity. Melnyk wants his stadium to seat 30k. Do the math.
Melnyk’s “community soccer fields” are a long way from the majority of the citizens of Ottawa. Don’t forget there are plans for a track, ultimate disc field, and soccer fields as part of Lansdowne Live, which is located right in the centre of everything.
Melnyk has not made public any funding formula for his proposed stadium. Most likely because his contribution to construction cannot come close to the $120M that the Hunt group will contribute in their project.
PLEASE tell me that the people in charge of evaluating Melnyk’s proposal are capable of rational thought!!!
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm
First, I would like to rebut one of Dan`s arguments.
Dan said: ¨MLS doesn’t have anything that could remotely compete with the Grey Cup…¨
The MLS has both an All Star game and a final (each awarded to different cities each season). How do you think MLS determines the championship team each season?
Soccer is a very popular and international sport. I don`t see many kids in Argentina running around saying ¨I wanna be Marcus Crandall! Let`s go play Canadian football!¨
Ottawa has a large number of international residents. They did not grow up watching the CFL. They grew up watching their football. Our soccer.
I think you will find that many of the citizens of Ottawa would support soccer. It is a finacially attractive event (compared to CFL ticket prices) the whole family can enjoy. I do not know the numbers, but I would wager there are more kids playing soccer than football in the City.
An MLS team here will only encourage more youth to get involved and play the rather easy to learn game. Not only here, but across the country people will see the sport and it will spark more interest in a great game.
Considering the global economic crisis, soccer is a comparitively less expensive sport to get your kids involved in too. I am not knocking any other sports leagues, but if you only have so many dollars, well, you need to plan where to spend them wisely.
An MLS team will bring in a lot of tourism money as well. An MLS stadium will create jobs and help to sustain a lot of the businesses that are reliant on NHL fans and supporters.
The Toronto FC is the most popular club in the MLS. They have a 10,000 name waiting list for season`s tickets!!! Soccer has a huge following in Canada - it just needs more teams to be able to show it!
Look at the numbers of people who went to the U-20 FIFA games in 07. They were sold out. And there was not even a Team Canada game there!
The CFL has failed here. Twice. People say it was mismanagement, but I was at those games. There weren`t many others there with me. Owners can`t manage if there is no support from the fans.
I am putting voice behind the MLS stadium and I hope my councillor votes for it if there has to be a decision made. I have let him know as I hope others have as well.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Dave,
Do you recall the amount of Canadian viewers that tuned in to watch either the MLS all star game or the MLS cup final? Neither do I, but I remember reading that the CFL REGULAR SEASON games had three times more viewers than the MLS all star game that day, even though it was held in Toronto. I would estimate that the MLS cup did even worse, but I can’t recall reading about any ratings for it. Regardless, no MLS event has EVER attracted 3-4M viewers, Canadian or American, which is average viewership for the Grey Cup.
Feel free to compare Toronto Argonauts ticket prices with those of TFC. I think you’ll soon figure out which could be considered the true inexpensive, family-friendly event.
Any of your economic arguments apply just as readily to a CFL stadium, only an MLS stadium would likely be a greater drain on public resources for funding.
Support for the U-20 events cannot be misconstrued as support for a professional team. In international soccer events, loyalties to home countries emerge, and fans are willing to travel to see their own country play. A professional team in Ottawa would not have this kind of support. Finally, the U-20s were a one-time, “miss it and it’s gone forever” type of event, bound to draw more fans than would attend 19-20 games year after year.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Ottawa is truly an international city and soccer is an international game that is why I truly believe the MLS would be the best choice for the City of Ottawa.
I understand how some hold the CFL at heart being a national treasure and how there are many historic moments the league has brought to this city. There two major failures linked to the CFL. Some blame poor management. I blame hockey. Once the Senators came into town the CFL has struggled hockey being the preferred choice of many. But now we have a chance to have a summer and a winter sport under the same management. We need to stop dwelling on the historic past, learn from our mistakes and take a step forward to the future of a sport that is becoming more Canadian every single year.
Now you might think well Ottawa just can’t support more than a hockey team but looking at the numbers. There are many more youth and adult soccer players than hockey players and substantially more than baseball/softball and football players. The youth are the future and the future for a soccer team in this town is extremely promising.
In terms of location the downtown location although being closer for most everyone it causes incredible amounts of traffic. The advantage in other cities of having the stadiums in central locations is the use of public transportation. There is not even a significant transitway route or O-Train station near Lansdowne Park. The Kanata location would continue to cause traffic out West but no more than what the Senators have been doing for 13 years. I am from Orleans and I would gladly pay 50$ a game to take a bus or drive across the city to watch a world class soccer game. I know I am not the only one who would even had driven to Montreal to watch a game. There is true passion for this sport all over.
The success of the U20 FIFA World Cup with very little promotion has proven that this city is ready for soccer. This city is ready to support a sport that it loves. This city is ready to follow a team through success and failure. This city is ready for the MLS.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Hello. I am very excited about the prospect of Ottawa getting an MLS franchise. Soccer is the most popular sport on earth and it is the fastest growing sport in North America. There are thousands of talented young stars in this region and so it would be great to have a professional soccer team here. Ottawa should not ignore this opportunity. We are the nations capital. I don’t know any other national capital that does not have it’s own professional soccer team.
I have heard that the city has not decided whether to build a soccer specific stadium for the MLS franchise or a football stadium for an Ottawa CFL franchise. The CFL has been here on numerous occasions and has failed each time. Why do we need another CFL team? Soccer is a sport that will not fail. Take the U-20 World Cup for example. The interest level in Ottawa was a massive success. Ottawa is a city that can support a soccer franchise. There is a large soccer fanbase here.
Furthermore, obtaining an MLS franchise in Ottawa is a wise investment. If we build a soccer specific stadium and soccer facilities this can only help our young, blooming soccer players. This will provide them with the opportunity to play football all year round and also to play in a wonderful facility. Local talent will have a far greater opportunity to play soccer at a professional level. Also, another MLSA team in Canada will also help our national teams performance. For example, before the MLS was created, the USA mens national soccer team were poor to say the least, following the creation of the MLS, their squad has grown leaps and bounds and now they are considered to be one of the strongest soccer national teams in the world. In fact, in the 2002 World Cup, they finished in a top 8 position.
Bringing an MLS team to Ottawa will be far more benficial then bringing another CFL team.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Soccer does not have a large following in Canada unlike CFL football? What is the fastest growing sport in Canada… is it football? I will tell you one thing it is not the kind of football played with a pigskin, it is european football or as we refer to it over here, soccer. The fact is that there is a great deal of interest for soccer in Canada. For example, the U-20 World Cup was the most succesful ever! There were more supporters in Canada at the U-20 World Cup then there ever has been, in any other country! Furthermore, look at the success of the Toronto FC MLS franchise. It is has been a massive success! It is one of the greatest supported teams in the entire league. The fact is, there is a great deal of interest for soccer in Canada and there is a great deal of interest in soccer within the Ottawa area. If Ottawa does get an MLS franchise it will not be a mistake. The only mistake would be getting another CFL franchise. Please bring a football team to Ottawa… just not the type of football team that plays with an oval shaped pigskin ball… bring a proper football team to Ottawa.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:10 pm
CFL football is now minor league , and what happens when Toronto
gets an NFL team
Please go with the Soccer Stadium . Better Parking, More Games,Right
on the expanded Queensway , Some new fields for the community etc etc
Not sure lansdowne park needs a housing project - Just ore people and cars in an already saturated area
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 am
I get surprised when I see people opposing MLS and its plan. CFL has failed twice, what makes this time a potential success? if football failed to draw fans lets see if soccer does. Actually it did, with terrible traffic and parking and old stadium, lansdawn park, in U20 FIFA 2007 the stadium was full and sold out for all 8 games in Ottawa.
Melnyk proved that he can left an NHL franchise from the bottom of the league and bring it up to the final in 2007. I believe he can do the same for MLS franchise in this city where there are more than 90,000 registered soccer player.
The stadium location in Kanata is far and I would prefer a central location like Bayview yard or Hurdman area. But I dont know if it would be enough for his plan fo another 5 soccer fields with domes in the winter.
I would be a season ticket holder any way.
GO FOR MLS
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:18 am
In Canada there is nearly one million registered soccer players. For a nation of this size that is unbelievable! What is more is that the participation rates have steadily risen each year. Soccer is the worlds premier sport and Canada has finally begun to adopt it as its sport as well. Ottawa has a huge soccer community. I coach youth soccer and I am in a position to say that there is a great deal of soccer talent in the Ottawa area and there is a vast amount of soccer enthusiasts. If Ottawa gets a team there will be no shortage of support for the franchise. Look at the success of the TFC. “Toronto FC was one of the most successful launches in pro sports history,” Garber says after reflecting on how Toronto reporters scoffed during the initial press conference, predicting that MLS would never succeed. There will always be those who doubt that soccer can be supported in Canada. That, however, is not an informed opinion. Soccer is already supported in Canada. It is the most popular sport being played across our nation. It is the sport of choice for our nations youth.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Soccer is the largest sport in the world. In Canada it is the largest played sport, During the U20 tournament Ottawa proved that it loves soccer with continuous sellouts for every game. There is no doubt a team will be largely supported. My Ottawa MLS facebook group got 1000 members in a week. There is no doubt a very large portion of Ottawa people that would love to see this happen. There is no doubt that soccer will succeed in Ottawa. I am a huge CFL fan, and have loved going to renegade games in the past. But we all know that a team just isn’t going to stay here. Its time to move on and do what is a sure success.
February 4th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Please support MLS in Ottawa. This will be a crucial step in the development of you Canadian talents and will benefit not only Ottawa, but the country as a whole. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world and therefore is bound to succeed. Ottawa is so multicultural that this will be an instant success.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Support for the FIFA tournament is no indication of the type of support a local team would have. By the same reasoning, I could have made the claim that because we had over 50,000 in the stands for Grey Cup in 2004, the Renegades would never fold.
What we do know about soccer is that any pro team here has drawn terribly and lasted a short period of time. Some are fond of referring to Ottawa’s football “failures”, but one of those failures lasted 12 decades. Meanwhile, on the soccer side, I believe the Impact had the best attendance, and even that was under 2000 on the average. And has a pro club here ever lasted even one decade?
I attempted to post a link previously to an article which showed that only three MS teams are making money. The CFL can boast highs in attendance in ratings and attendance. I don’t believe MLS can make the same claim.
No one questions that citizens of Ottawa enjoy playing soccer. There are many legitimate questions as to whether they will attend games. Because the Lansdowne Live proposal offers football in addition to a place for those who enjoy soccer to play it, I much prefer that one.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Dave in Orleans:
“The CFL has failed here. Twice. People say it was mismanagement, but I was at those games. There weren`t many others there with me. Owners can`t manage if there is no support from the fans.”
I don’t understand this mentality. That’s like saying that if you go to a Cajun restaurant and get lousy food and service, you should just keep going and going in the hope that one day it improves.
People get fed up with poor management when there is no indication that it will ever improve. If you stop going to the Cajun restaurant, it doesn’t mean that you hate Cajun food. It just means that you can’t stand the way that particular restaurant serves it.
February 4th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
There is no doubt that people will attend MLS games. I will certainly be a season ticket holder if Ottawa brings in a team.
February 4th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
I will definately buy season tickets to the Ottawa MLS franchise. If I had to, I would wait outside all week prior to the tickets going on sale, to guarantee that I got the tickets. Soccer is a hot commodity. There are over 80,000 registered soccer players in the Ottawa area. How many people in Ottawa play football? The CFL will not attract anywhere near the same amount of interest as a soccer team would. Furthermore, the CFL has had its opportunity in Ottawa and has not worked out. There will certainly be enough people to support this MLS franchise. Soccer fans will rally around the team and be proud to have a professional team of our own. Ottawa needs to give the MLS a chance. They will not regret it.
February 4th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
OTTAWA needs the CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE and The CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE needs OTTAWA.
The Hunt group is the ideal group for the CFL ! community guys.
The Lansdown project can house both the CFL and MLS.
February 5th, 2009 at 12:17 am
I wish that those people that oppose MLS would take a moment and look at the city ethnic stats and see how ethnically diverse our city is.
Just because we have never had a Soccer team in Ottawa before does not mean that it will not be as good as CFL had been in the “past”, it could be better.
As to the location I believe that it should be somewhere central where it could be easily accessible from any part of the city including Gatineau, without having to travel almost twice the distance from the eastend to the westend of the city. I strongly believe Soccer would be the city’s best bet in the long run.
I VOTE MLS
Thanks!
February 5th, 2009 at 7:53 am
I will definately buy season tickets. Can’t wait to watch our very own MLS team.
February 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
The MLS in Ottawa! I am so excited about the possibility!
February 5th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
We don’t even have an MLS franchise. CFL viewership is up, CFL game attendance is up. MLS is having financial problems already and their future as a league is highly in doubt, while the Grey Cup has just been played for the 96th time. Sorry, MLS is a BIG gamble. My tax money is with the CFL. Bring back the Ottawa Rough Riders! If you want MLS, go to Toronto.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
jayme: The reason many kids play soccer is that it is a cheap sport and many families can afford the equipment. Let’s be honest with ourselves here; the money CFL can generate for the city at the Lansdowne location is far more than MLS could even hope for. Yes, the FIFA U20 did well, but that was more of a one-off event. How many people would actually support a hometown soccer team in a struggling league like MLS? Not many. I don’t know of anyone who is even mildly interested in MLS in Ottawa. Even the so-called “ethnic groups” decry the game of soccer by and large. It’s the Ottawa Rough Riders for me. We actually have a franchise waiting to play.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Where are all of these CFL fans getting their information?
* “I don’t know of anyone who is even mildly interested in MLS in Ottawa. Even the so-called “ethnic groups” decry the game of soccer by and large.”
* “the money CFL can generate for the city at the Lansdowne location is far more than MLS could even hope for.”
* “MLS is having financial problems already and their future as a league is highly in doubt”
FACT: The MLS is not in financial trouble. The MLS has secured its long term future. It is a profitable league.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:57 am
It seriously baffles me how Melnyk and Leeder have fooled everyone into thinking this is a choice between football and soccer.
This is more like a game of “Deal of No Deal”. You’ve got two cases left, “0″ and “1,000,000″. The only difference is the banker (ie Hunt & co.) has offered you “1,000,000″ to walk away wih no risk, and if you reject the offer the probabiity of choosing the million dollar case (winning an MLS franchse) is not 0.5, IT’S ZERO!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Hey Dan back up what you are saying with reality. I have heard enough fiction from the CFL fans now lets here some fact.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Stephen:
Has Ottawa been awarded any kind of MLS franchise?
Has Ottawa been awarded a CFL franchise?
Have the federal or provincial governments given the slightest indication that they would be willing to pay for a professional sports stadium for Melnyk to control and do whatever he pleases?
Do you think that Ottawa’s bid will have anything even remotely resembling the financial commitment from federal and provincial governments that have been given in Vancouver ($365M) St. Louis (contribution to $500M soccer complex, given the green light), and Portland ($75M for soccer renovations and a new baseball stadium)? and all this in AT MOST a month and a half?
Can you produce a single ranking by a soccer insider that doesn’t place Ottawa as DEAD LAST in liklihood of being granted a franchise? (I’ve honestly never seen one).
Face facts. Melnyk moved too late against much bigger players. He doesn’t have enough time to receive the backing of the federal or provincial governments that would be required to even be considered by MLS, who will award the next two franchises in a matter of months. They will not be granting conditional franchises, as they want to keep their options open to add Atlanta, New York II, and Las Vegas in the near future. Ottawa is too small time for the big flashy American MLS, they have their sights set on metropolises like Miami, and maybe they’ll throw a few crumbs Vancouver’s way. Just like I read in Ben Knight’s (Canadian soccer guru) column a few months back: Ottawa is being used as a rabbit, sent out in front of a pack of dogs to get them to run around the track faster. MLS is not coming to Ottawa, it’s being used to motivate other markets to sweeten their bids.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Rolando: We not have had an MLS team in the past, but we have had plenty of soccer teams here. They all failed far worse that football ever has.
People point to registration numbers as a sure sign of support for MLs, but participation and attendance are two different things. There has never been any sign of support as a SPECTATOR sport for a local soccer team at any level that it has been played. University football outdraws its soccer counterpart 10-1, for example.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Stephen: I can help you track down the perception that MLS is not financially sound. Try the Sports Business Journal. JHere are some quotes about either poor ratings or the finacial standings of the teams/league.
“Major League Soccer is not quite ready to carry its own night on TV.
After two years of anemic ratings that started low and finished lower, ESPN executives decided to cancel the league’s regular Thursday night telecast on ESPN2 this season. In its place, ESPN2 will carry an MLS game of the week…”
Forbes also had an article about the value of franchises and while it most certainly is not ALL bad news, it contains the following paragraph:
“Our estimates indicate the league is not yet profitable, with its 13 teams posting an operating loss (in the sense of earnings before interest, taxes and depreciation) of $20 million on revenue of $165 million. But there are signs of hope. In 2007, the three teams that were in the black–Los Angeles Galaxy, Toronto FC and FC Dallas–had a combined operating profit of $6.7 million.”
You should be able to find it by Googling “Forbes MLS”. The article is from September of last year.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
The question which must be asked is what are the benefits of the CFL and of the MLS? The fact is that an MLS team will bring far more benefits to Ottawa and to Canada as a whole then a CFL franchise ever could. How many children play football in Ottawa? How many children play soccer in Ottawa? Far more people are registered in soccer leagues then are registered in football leagues. Bringing an MLS team to our city will ensure that our local talent will have the best facilites to practise and play upon. An MLS team will allow our local talent to have an opportunity to play professionaly. An Ottawa MLS team will benefit Canada as a whole because it is important for as many Canadian players as possible to have the opportunity to play at a professional level. Another Canadian team will provide this. Look at America’s soccer growth since the creation of the MLS. It has been astounding to see how fast thei team has risen up the charts. This would certainly help Canada’s quilifaction chances for future World Cups.
Soccer does sell in Canada. Look at the success of the U-20 World Cup and of TFC. All indications are that an MLS team would be a big success in Ottawa. The CFL have had their chance, now it is soccer’s turn in Ottawa. A new soccer stadium could also be used to attract an outdoor NHL game which would be great. And also, the USA is planning on hosting the World Cup within the next decade. Soccer often uses co-hosts for major tournaments (2002 WC: Japan/Korea, 2000 Euro: Netherlands:Belgium, 2008 Euros: Austria, Switzerland, 2012 Euros: Poland/Ukraine). There is the distinct possibility that, if the USA hosts an upcoming World Cup, Canada could co-host. That would be an incredible thing for our nation and for our city! Canada is a G8 capital, we need our own professional soccer team!
February 8th, 2009 at 2:04 am
Hey Stephen,
Looks like you don’t follow, nor like the CFL that much. Despite the CFL has made a lot of money than MLS soccer with it TV viewership, and game attendance, MLS is also on the rise with its league. However, 10 of the 13 franchises, with the exception of Toronto FC, LA Galaxy, and FC Dallas did not make a profit last year, so the league is not yet profitable. But that does not mean that MLS soccer is in trouble financially. The teams and the league could still be profitable once they benefit from their own soccer specific stadiums, TV revenues, and local sponsorships.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/09/mls-soccer-beckham-biz-sports-cz_kb_0909mlsvalues.html
I am not opposed to MLS coming to Ottawa, and I do like soccer, but we have to be careful since this franchise bid is not a done deal yet. Even if Montreal and Atlanta drop out of the MLS expansion race, it still does not guarantee that we are a lock of getting an MLS team since we are still up against other soccer competitive markets such as Vancouver, Portland, St. Louis, and Miami. We also have to look at how much will our taxpaying dollars are going to be spent on this new Soccer-specific stadium Melnyk is proposing since he wants all three levels of government to put their share towards the stadium. Melnyk also needs to address the city if his stadium can be used as a multi-purpose facility besides soccer since it holds 30,000.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Mr O’Brien,
I am concerned about the change of attitude towards Lansdowne Live. It would appear that this council is now leaning towards Mr Melnyk’s proposal at the expense of Mr Hunt’s Lansdowne Live. Why was the vote changed from February to April? The head of the committee, Mr. Hume knows full well that the CFL deadline for a franchise in Ottawa is March and yet this council (you included) moved the vote until after that deadline. It would appear that you are hoping that Mr. Hunt and the CFL just go away and then you can vote with Mr. Melnyk.
It is a slap in the face to a group of very successful local businessmen who had put together a very good proposal for the rejuvenation of all of Lansdowne Park, only to be told they will have to wait until April.
Mr O’Brien, Lansdowne Park is a outdoor multi use facility in the heart of the city. With access to all the citizens of Ottawa. We finally have a group of people that will bring it up to world call standards. And yet this project appears to be doomed for the sake of a soccer only stadium in Kanata? This city has already made the mistake of building the Arena in the west end of Ottawa and now we are going to repeat the same mistake? Mr Leeder’s comments’ about easier access to Scotia Bank place is false. Anyone who has travelled to the west end on game night from the east end can tell you a different story.
Lansdowne Park is in the heart of the city, with equal access to all of Ottawa and is a five minute drive from the Queensway. It also has in it’s plans three rec soccer fields plus the main field can be used for soccer.
At the end of the day, the citizen’s of Ottawa will still own Lansdowne Park. It will be a world class facility, not a drain on the taxpayer.
Regarding MLS, this is now the fourth pro soccer league to try and gain a foothold in North America. Already the ratings are far below expectations in the States and have falling dramatically. They have now been relegated to ESPN2 (see article below). Attendance was down last year from the previous year. David Beckham, the leagues main attraction has already stated he will not return to the MLS. Four groups have already pulled out of the bidding for a franchise. stating the economic uncertainties of the league, these are all facts.
Soccer in North America is played by thousands of children, it’s relatively low fees to enrol your child make it attractive to parents. It is not a spectator sport in this country. The amount of people playing Soccer does not translate into paying customers to see pro soccer, history has proven that three times already. Ottawa has the largest minor football program in the country. Football is the fastest growing sport in the Province of Quebec, both are facts.
How does building more outdoor rec soccer fields in Kanata benefit anyone east of Bank Street - it doesn’t. This council has to start thinking in terms of the city as a whole, not just their own individual wards.
We are putting our tax dollars towards Mr. Melnyk’s dream of a soccer only stadium out in Kanata but pro soccer will be nowhere to be found. Mr Hunt’s group already has a conditional franchise from the CFL, Mr Melnyk does not have one with MLS.
Building a soccer only stadium in Kanata and turning your back on a multi use stadium already in existence is a bad move economically and one that this city will regret. We finally have group of people with great ideas (and the financial backing), to bring healthy business back to Bank Street, it would revitalize the area with many different facilities for everyone in Ottawa. It is a win win for the taxpayer. This project will create year round employment and prosperity to the Bank Street and downtown area, that is what local Government should be promoting. The same cannot be said for Mr Melnyk’s proposal. Please do the right thing.
l
February 8th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
For people who think MSL is on the rise, think again. This is the FORTH pro soccer league to try North America. The rest have all folded. Their star attraction David Becham is staying in Milan. Four groups have already withdrawn bids for a franchise. The CFL is the only sport n North America to see a rise in both attendance and TV viewership.
ESPN Boots MLS Out of Thursday Night Lineup
If there is any evidence that the David Beckham to MLS schtick isn’t working, this is proof. ESPN says adios to giving the soccer league a fixed primetime slot:
After two years of anemic ratings that started low and finished lower, ESPN executives decided to cancel the league’s regular Thursday night telecast on ESPN2 this season. In its place, ESPN2 will carry an MLS game of the week, which will air on four different nights during the season. The weekly matches will occur on Thursdays (10 times), Saturdays (eight times), Wednesdays (six times) and Fridays (three times).
“We didn’t see the kind of ratings climb we’d like to, so we’re trying something different,” said Scott Guglielmino, ESPN vice president of programming.
The decision to cancel the regular Thursday night game marks a stunning turnaround for a league that two years ago believed it was creating destination programming that would increase interest in MLS. But even the 2007 arrival of David Beckham couldn’t boost MLS ratings.
MLS games averaged a 0.2 rating and 289,000 viewers on ESPN2 in 2007. Those numbers dropped to 0.2/253,000 viewers the following year. Its highest rating during that period was Beckham’s second regular-season game in August 2007 that earned a 0.6/658,000 households.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
“Look at America’s soccer growth since the creation of the MLS. It has been astounding to see how fast thei team has risen up the charts.”
Incorrect. MLS is 13 years old, right? The USA is currently ranked 22nd. In 1995 they were ranked 19th, and in 1996 they were ranked 18th. So they’ve actually dropped in the standings since MLS came along.
Both sports would benefit with Lansdowne Live because it would provide the improved facilities that you mention. It could also serve to host a World Cup event if that came to pass. A stadium does not need to house a team to accomplish that, as we saw in 2007.
And who knows, maybe the Fury would be welcomed to play there, and if so perhaps their attendance could improve from the 300 or so that they draw now.
February 8th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
I’m a fan of both football and soccer. But to build a stadium out in Kanata that is used only for soccer makes no sense from an economic standpoint. Lansdowne Live has the abilities for BOTH sports as well as other events. They will assume all loses which is a benefit for the taxpayers of Ottawa. Melnyk’s bid has no such aggreement.
February 8th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Numbers of registered players are used as proof that Ottawa would support MLS. There are more registered soccer players in the area than football players. However what people do not say is how different inn culture the two sports are. the mentality of the two sports are totaly different.
In Soccer you sign up, and you play (at one of the many levels). In football you sign up, then you have to go to training camp to make the team… And odds are you are going to get cut and not play. Take Gatineau for example, their NCAFA teams had well over a hundred players trying out (each category), but only 36 make the team and are registered. The rest just go home. And it is worst for places like Nepean etc… The mentality is different. In soccer; you pay you play. In football, you play, if you make it you play but if you don’t you get a refund.
Also football is alot more involved. Having coached both, I can honestly say that there is no comparison. In soccer we got 1 practice and 1 game a week. Quite often, a good part of your team doesn’t show up for practice. They still play… In football we had two months of training before the season begins, at three practices a week. You have to study the plays and know them… If you don’t know the plays or miss practices… You don’t play. Football is a much bigger commitment. Soccer folks do not comprehend this. But in football not knowing the play hurts the team and can be dangerous.
So the registered numbers are not a good indication. How many people show up for games is. What is more popular? Ottawa U football or Soccer?
February 8th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Soccer as a spectator sport in Canada is NOT viable. Many children play soccer because it is cheap and does not require a lot of practice unlike hockey or football. Little children kicking around a ball on a Saturday afternoon does NOT translate into viewers in seats at a stadium watching a game. When they grow up, they abandon the game. Multiple soccer teams have failed again and again and again in Canada over the years in multiple leagues. CFL on the other hand DOES translate into stadium attendance as the current year over year viewership has shown. The CFL has been going for nearly a century too. Forget soccer. Bring in the CFL! It is really the ONLY choice.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Why cant the city of Ottawa make a deal to have both the CFL and MLS play both at Lansdown.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I don’t think that anybody can seriously suggest that a CFL team would be as beneficial as an MLS team would. The MLS team not only would interst far more people, as soccer is a far more popular sport then soccer, but it would also be of direct benefit to far more young aspiring athletes. I would certainly jump at the chance to buy season tickets for an MLS team in Ottawa!
February 9th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
ROBERT’s opinion: “Soccer as a spectator sport in Canada is NOT viable. Many children play soccer because it is cheap and does not require a lot of practice unlike hockey or football. Little children kicking around a ball on a Saturday afternoon does NOT translate into viewers in seats at a stadium watching a game. When they grow up, they abandon the game…”
This opinion does not make sense. The fact of the matter is that soccer is the most popular sport to play in Canada. When children grow up they will not just abandon the game and decide to support another sport that they have no experience with. Their interest level in soccer will not simply disappear. They will spend their money on buying tickets to watch soccer rather then on another sport because they can relate to and understand the game.
February 10th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I don’t know about that, Gabriella. A document from Soccer Canada on Mr Melnyk’s site shows that a little over 83% of people registered for soccer in Ontario are under 18. That doesn’t seem to indicate continued passion for the game.
Speaking from my own experience only, as a kid I was registered in judo, basketball, hockey and baseball. But football (mostly Canadian) is the only sport I follow now. When I was nine, it wasn’t my idea to be registered in baseball; it was my dad’s. That a kid is registered in a sport doesn’t automatically mean he or she has a great love for the game.
And again, I would be far more willing to buy into the argument that those same kids would buy tickets to watch soccer if any of the past or current teams here had outstanding attendance.
February 10th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
BMO Field is built at the old CNE grounds in Toronto, a larger version of our Lansdowne. It is in the central core of Toronto.
BMO Field was built on land owned by The City of Toronto and valued around $10 million, The Federal Government kicked in $27 million and the province put up another $ 8 million. The rest of the cost was borne by private interests. MLSE (Raptors, Maple Leafs) put up $8 million. Total cost was about $70 million.
BMO is owned by The City of Toronto and managed by MLSE on a long term lease.
If Toronto can get fed and provincial funds for what is essentially a pro sports stadium, why can not we in Ottawa? Particularly now, when the senior governments want to stimulate the economy by repairing and upgrading infrastructure.–and they want projects that are ready to go now. LP is a major piece of infrastructure that needs repair and upgrading.. The Lansdowne Live group, who want to put $120 million of private money, into it could get shovels in the ground quite soon.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Canadian Football has failed twice in Ottawa. Soccer is going to be the most popular sport in Canada soon you may as well join us now or later.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Not only has soccer failed in Ottawa before (Intrepid), but entire soccer LEAGUES have failed in Canada. The city of Ottawa is foolish to even consider MLS. CFL is where its at! Renovate Frank Clair stadium NOW and bring back the Ottawa Rough Riders.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
The Ottawa Intrepids have failed… entire soccer leagues have failed. Those leagues were not the same quality as the MLS. The 1980s is not 2009. Your points are so hypocritical. You are talking about soccer failing in Ottawa when that brand of soccer was nothing special at a time when soccer was not a popular commodity. That is like me telling you football can’t work because the Carlton University team went extinct. The fact is football CAN’T work in Ottawa as has been shown so blatantly with the two failed CFL franchises! If you want ootball go to Montreal. They know how to support a football team. Ottawa wants an MLS team. It is a far more popular sport… it is a sport the city wants… take a look at the polls and the statistics.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Games at a soccer stadium way out in Kanata, even before it’s abandoned when the MLS folds, will never generate anything close to the community spirit that CFL games downtown within view of the Rideau Canal, Parliament and the Gatineaus will.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Stephen, there’s nothing hypocritical about it. Football, at least, has had periods of great support. Soccer simply never has. Ever. At any level.
The Ottawa Sooners junior club recently said they had an average attendance of 1800 while playing at Carleton. The Fury’s attendance is in the range of 300. Now. Not in 1985.
We are not debating whether many people play soccer. We are debating whether people will support a local franchise. Ottawa has no history of supporting its soccer teams. It does have some history of supporting football. Even the Renegades, in their final season, performing terribly and with hated owners, had an average attendance of 18,500. Four seasons prior to folding, the Rough Riders were averaging over 24,000.
There’s something contradictory in using a franchise that had 120 year stay in the city as a symbol of lack of support, while ignoring every single team and league that has lasted less than a tenth of that time, yet still claiming that support for soccer is inevitable.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Stephen wrote:
>if you want football go to Montreal. They know how to support a football team.
First of all, the Montreal CFL team (Alouettes, Concordes) failed twice, and they failed in the WLAF (Machine). That statement would be like me saying “If you want soccer go to Toronto, they know how to support a soccer team.
The fact remains that even at their worst the Ottawa Renegades (with terrible management and mediocre team) drew 18 000 per game. If you look at University, college and High School football in the area they draw more people to their games than soccer. In fact, other than the U20 championship a little while back, we never had any indication of soccer (fan) support in the area (Ottawa Wizards failed miserably in the CPSL, Ottawa Intrepids did the same, the Fury draws a couple hundreds to their game at best). Even MLS recognized blogs question the possible lack of fan support of Ottawa. As for polls, anyone that can clear his cache and erase his coockies on his/her browser can vote hundreds of times. So this is not reliable.
Have a season ticket contest! If MLS can pile up more season ticket reservations than CFL, so be it. Of course you would have to check that these season tickets are to a real person and not Mr Melnyk or Mr Hunt buying hundreds of them to win. But if you should know, the television ratings for CFL football are way way higher than the Toronto FC ratings on CBC.
How many people in Canada watch the Grey Cup? How many people in Canada watch the MLS cup? Not even close!
February 12th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Fans of the MLS have given concrete facts and statistics for why the MLS would succeed. Recent polls in Ottawa reveal that the citizens of Ottawa would far more prefer a soccer team and that they feel a soccer team has a far greater chance of flourishing in our great city. Unfortunately, the CFL fans on this blog keep resorting to the same ancient argument that soccer cannot work in Ottawa without giving any reasoning. Their is no foundation for your points of view.
February 12th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I would urge the City to support the building of a soccer-specific stadium in Kanata.
Soccer is far and away the most popular sport in the world, and has more registered players than hockey in Canada, whereas the CFL has failed in Ottawa twice in the last 15 years. In addition, an suburban location close to the Queensway is the best place for a sporting venue in Ottawa. Landsdowne Park is a nightmare to get to via Bank Street, a congested road at any time without an event there. If it was serviced with underground transportation link, the location might make sense, but Kanata is much more accessible with the City’s current (and likely future) transportation infrastructure.
If the stadium is built in Kanata, the City still has a valuable piece of real estate to develop for the benefit of the city. Also, this appears to be a very good time to be building a new Stadium as the federal government looks to spend infrastructure dollars.
I would urge the council to listen to the recent polls and address this issue with some urgency, while they can still influence the award of an MLS franchise for 2011.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
The MLS is far from folding yes some teams are not making significant profit but if Ottawa were to join it will be the 4th new team in 3 years. The larger the league the more rivalries, competition, interest, media attention and money. You want city spirit what about sens games? They’re way out in Kanata and I think we’re all doing just fine with that. The point is football has had its second chance (within the last 5 years) and soccer has never had a REAL world-class oppurtunity. This is our chance time to show the world we can!
February 12th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I have been to two CFL games in Ottawa in the last 15 years, but I will be queuing on day 1 for MLS season tickets.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:11 am
Wow, 80,000 to 90,000 soccer players in the Ottawa region! Sorry but that adds up to nothing. Soccer moms and proud grand parents watching little Johnny and/or Mary for free, does not spell success on a professional level.
The MLS is asking 4 times the amount of money than what the CFL is asking for. The MLS has 14 teams and only 3 are making money. Of those 3 squads, 2 are making a slim profit. I know, I know…the CFL has lost it’s team in Ottawa twice. But don’t think for a minute that the MLS is a proven league, or on the bigger picture, that professional soccer in North America (OK, let’s just say Canada) has been/is/or will be a solid venture.
Toronto FC is touted as the “model” franchise for the MLS. Yep, pretty easy to fill a 20,000 seat stadium with 5 million plus. LA (pop 12 million) needed David Beckham to reach those numbers. Oh, by the way, look for the MLS savior to be gone to Europe next year.
It’s my opion that the best solution for all is if the funding goes to the Hunt group, and Geno buys a team and plays out of Lansdowne. I just hope that his ego will allow it.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:17 am
“Fans of the MLS have given concrete facts and statistics for why the MLS would succeed.”
What are you talking about, Stephen? No, they haven’t. All they’ve done is point to participation in the sport by (mostly) kids and attendance for one event, neither of which prove that MLS will be supported.
Meanwhile, I’ve provided you with portions of an article about poor TV ratings for MLs in the states, a report by Forbes which showed that 10 of 13 MLS teams were not profitable, poor attendance numbers for every local pro soccer team in the past three decades and poor attendance numbers for every local amateur club.
I can additionally provide a link to a message board for Toronto FC in which that team’s fans were asked for a little help in tilting one of those polls in soccer favours. At no extra cost, I can describe to you how to cheat on those polls and vote multiple times, thereby making their credibility more than a little suspect.
Lansdowne Live will provide football to those of us who love it, and additional soccer for those who love that. It was said yesterday that it was plausible that those behind the Lansdowne Live bid would pursue a team of their own if Melnyk’s attempt fails. One of the men behind Lansdowne Live is co-owner of a European (I believe) soccer club, so he obviously has an interest in the sport himself.
Supporting Lansdowne Live is NOT a vote against soccer.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
JFFournier Says:
“One of the men behind Lansdowne Live is co-owner of a European (I believe) soccer club, so he obviously has an interest in the sport himself.”
Which of the men behind Lansdowne Live is co-owner of a European soccer club???? I think you probably mean George Gillett Jr who owns the Montreal Canadians and co-owns Liverpool soccer club, and is not part of the Landsdowne Live group in any way as far as I know.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Fournier, here is your Forbes article: It looked like MLS might join an alphabet soup of failed soccer leagues including the NASL, USL and WISL.
It is a much different game today. Seven of the league’s 14 teams play in soccer-specific stadiums, five of which have been built since 2002. Expansion franchises in Seattle and Philadelphia recently agreed to pay $30 million each to join the league, three times what Toronto FC paid to join MLS three years ago. Commissioner Don Garber says the next two expansion teams, to be announced in 2009, will cost $40 million. Some team owners are even floating a $50 million price tag.
The MLS is going strong. And those non-profitable teams that you speak of are predicted to be profitable by the end of 2010. Sounds like a league which is growing in strength rather then in dire straits. Oh by the way, why did the Renegades fold? I can tell you it was not becasue they were a profitable organization, it was because they were losing millions and projected to lose more and more.
February 14th, 2009 at 8:50 am
I would suggest to city council to follow Dave’s suggestion and look at the polls. Not the Ottawa Sun polls that are easy to cheat on, but the one that the Citizen talks about today that was conducted by EKOS Research Associates.
Support for both sports is near-equal, but…
“When asked their preferred location for a multi-purpose sports complex, 79 per cent named Lansdowne Park…”
“…almost 80 per cent of Ottawans favour the Lansdowne Live plan…”
“…43 per cent of respondents believed there might be value in seeing other Lansdowne proposals, many of them nevertheless think it’s time to grab the offer on the table before it’s withdrawn.”
“Overall, Mr. Graves said, the more features added to a Lansdowne redevelopment plan, the more support it attracts. And that could extend to putting a professional soccer franchise there as well, he said.”
So please, let’s stop messing around and finally come to a decision. Support for Lansdowne Live is strong and most importantly the proposal is FLEXIBLE. It already has been modified greatly from what it was in late 2007 as a result of feedback.
(Personally, I would suggest dropping the aquarium for trade show space and dumping the ultimate frisbee field for additional park space. Whatever funds are spared from that, if any, can be put into stadium construction)
Soccer fans, be vocal with your passion for the sport with those gentlemen. Judging from their changes to the plan over the past 18 months or so, these gentlemen aim to please.
Oh, and suppor the Fury. They deserve it.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
The Ottawa Rough Riders were here for 120 years (YES one hundred and twenty). I would hardly call that a failure. Since the mid-1960s, FOUR soccer leagues have failed in Canada - even Beckham wants OUT of MLS. Not exactly a great endorsement of soccer in Canada. The CFL has just celebrated in 96th Grey Cup - now THAT’s longevity! Not only can Ottawa not support soccer, but the leagues fail again and again. City Council - vote for Lansdowne Live and CFL - the SOLID choice. If they want, the MLS can play at Lansdowne at a central location that is easy to get to by ALL citizens of Ottawa and Gatineau. That’s where I want my tax dollars going.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
“And those non-profitable teams that you speak of are predicted to be profitable by the end of 2010.”
Sorry, Stephen, I see no mention of that in that article. I see them predict that two more teams will, but certainly not the rest of them, unless you’re getting your information from somewhere else?
The only reference I could find along those lines was from Wikipedia…
“MLS Commissioner Don Garber said on May 11, 2006 that he expects the league’s clubs to be profitable by 2010 overall. He reported that FC Dallas and the L.A. Galaxy are already profitable, with several other clubs nearing profitability. A year later, he revealed that the Chicago Fire, the Colorado Rapids, and Toronto FC were on track for profitability by 2008. However in 2008 there were only three profitable MLS franchises; LA Galaxy, Toronto FC and FC Dallas.”
Guess he was wrong…
February 16th, 2009 at 11:29 am
To Dave Harrison: Roger Shenkman is part owner. Here’s a portion of a Sun article from last March:
===
Sports team ownership runs in his family. Shenkman is the godson of former Riders and Alouettes owner Sam Berger, and the cousin of David Loeb, another Rider owner.
Shenkman is the major shareholder of the Millwall Lions, a soccer team that plays in League One — third best in England.
“They play in The Den, which seats 22,500,” he said. “It’s a very nice stadium.”
===
I have no idea about the level of play, my point was only that he has an interest in the sport of soccer.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
The CFL cannot compete with soccer as a spectator sport. It can’t now and most importantly it certainly will not be able to in the future. Soccer is a sport that is not simply growing in popularity within North America, it is exploding.
Fournier was right when he/she said we must support the Fury. Ottawa has a lot of great soccer players. Getting an MLS franchise would be the best way to support them. It would allow our top players a chance to train in top facilities and also give them a better chance at suceeding at the pro level.
To put it simply, soccer has far more potential then the CFL could ever have.
February 16th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Dave Harrison Says:
“Which of the men behind Lansdowne Live is co-owner of a European soccer club???? I think you probably mean George Gillett”
Wrong. Bill Shenkman is the majority shareholder of the Millwall soccer team, and he plans to bring them here to play in an exhibition game shoud the LL plan pass through. I won’t be surprise if the Hunt Group pursues a soccer team, perhaps USL.
The Melnyk plan does look good, but its going to benefit only one sport which is soccer, and the occasional concert, not anything else like what Lansdowne Live is proposing. Why would I want my tax dollars go to a stadium in Kanata that is not going to benefit the entire sports community in this city? Why would the city this size would use a soccer specific stadium as its main stadium, when its not going to be used for other sports besides soccer? If soccer fans want MLS, bring it to Lansdowne, and at least show some support for the Ottawa Fury men’s and women’s teams.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Soccer is a mediocre sport at best in terms of numbers in Canada. The numbers show it. Just because it is popular in Europe does not mean it will be popular in North America, as has been the case - FOUR FAILED SOCCER LEAGUES LATER. The CFL is going strong - viewership is up and game attendance is up. 66,000+ at the 2008 Grey Cup - OUTSTANDING numbers! Numbers that soccer could only hope to achieve in Canada. The CFL Commissioner has proven it by backing up his statements by providing solid numbers from purely INDEPENDENT sources. CFL for OTTAWA! Soccer - maybe some other day.
February 17th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Gil if you want to keep bringing up your silly point about 4 failed soccer leagues in North America, let me tell you about several failed football leagues in North America:
- AAFC
- AFL (multiple AFL’s failed)
- CFL (Continental Football League)
- IFL
- IPFL
- PIFL
- PSFL
- USFL
- WFL
- XFL
February 18th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Stephen: 4 failed soccer leagues is not silly - it’s a FACT. Nice try with the list you posted above, but they are all AMERICAN leagues that have no effect on the CFL nor Ottawa itself. The point is, soccer has had NO success in Canada at all. Soccer leagues have folded again and again, yet the CFL remains strong and we have the independent numbers to prove it. CFL for OTTAWA!
February 18th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Gill name your Canadian soccer leagues that have failed. I think that you will find the list is a little shorter then 4, unless you are talking about youth leagues.
How many times has the CFL failed in Ottawa? Twice in the last 2 decades and we don’t need INDEPENDENT numbers to prove it. Nobody is arguing that the CFL is not a decent league. Of course it is. It, however, is not the right fit in Ottawa. This has been proven AGAIN AND AGAIN.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Stephen,
There have been four failed soccer leagues here in North American. I even put the years in brackets of how long they lasted.
CPSL (1983)
CSL(1987-1992)
NASL (1968-1984)
NPSL(1967)
The latter of the two defunct soccer leagues even had teams operating in Canada. Gil never mentioned anything about Canadian soccer, its about soccer in North America in general. The only soccer league that is operating here is the CSL which was formerly the NSL, CPSL, and CNSL.
Stephen, obviously by your anti-CFL, and anti-football mentality, it sounds like you have never been to a CFL football game here, and if you think that CFL football is not the right for Ottawa, prove it.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Brian read Gill’s message before you critique mine. Gill told me that their have been 4 failed soccer leagues in North America so I responded that their have been several failed football leagues within North America:
- AAFC
- AFL (multiple AFL’s failed)
- CFL (Continental Football League)
- IFL
- IPFL
- PIFL
- PSFL
- USFL
- WFL
- XFL
Gill then responded that those were leagues were American and so were not legitimate. The point is that the 4 Canadian leagues that he loves to mention are not Canadian. Their were not 4 Canadian leagues.
I have never been to a CFL game? Brian don’t tell me who I am and what I have done.
Proof that the CFL does not belong in Ottawa: 1996, 2006
Now you prove to me why an MLS team can’t work in Ottawa. If you can I would be very interested in hearing about it. But please don’t waste your time rehashing the same old nonsense about soccer is not sellable in Canada. We have all heard this… this has been proven wrong… that point does not cut it anymore. You are asking me for proof, I have given it… NOW ITS YOUR TURN! Give me proof! WHERE IS IT?
February 19th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Stop looking at the leagues of the past and focus on the future SOCCER has grown exponentially since 1992(the last year the CSL or any candian soccer league existed). And yes even a significant amount of teams have failed in Toronto. No one would have guessed that after TFC joined the MLS times have changed. Sure everyone says the soccer players in our city are just a bunch of young guys. But how many oldtimer football leagues do you see? Soccer has flourished since I seriously started following it 10 years ago. It is now time for us to put our money towards the future and the MLS.
February 20th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
We ARE looking at now, Nolan. And right now MLS ratings are so poor that they’ve been bumped from their time slot, and despite projections that about half the league would be making money, only three teams are. Oh, and their biggest drawing point looks to be about to jump from the league. That’s now.
You can not objectively look at MLS and just say everything is hunky-dory. There are legitimate concerns about its status.
It’s also difficult to be told to only look at now, yet having the Rough Riders thrown in our faces. No soccer team here comes anywhere near the longevity of that team, but we’ll ignore those failures, because those are in the past. See any flaws in logic there?
Still in the now, the local soccer teams are still not drawing as well. And football teams at the relative level (university and junior) are drawing five times what soccer is. These are facts. Check the CIS site if you don’t want to take my word for it (at least on the university portion).
Does that mean that MLs is absolutely, without-a-doubt doomed to fail? No! But please let’s not act like it’s a slam dunk either. As a spectator sport, there is not one thing that you can point to as evidence that Ottawa will support a local club. Because Ottawa never has (but it has for football). The FIFA tournament gets mentioned a lot, but that is hardly the same thing. It’s no more an indication of local team support than the 2004 Grey Cup was.
February 21st, 2009 at 12:15 am
I would love to see MLS come to Ottawa….but it should be housed at Lansdowne and become a room-mate with the Ottawa Rough-Riders. The Hunt group has made it clear that Lansdowne would not be exclusive to football.
Let’s move away from the pros and cons of Football vs. Soccer and let’s look at what is on the table at this point:
Geno wants a Soccer specific stadium that is not central. He has no formal commitment from MLS that he will be given a team. He will not share.
Hunt group wants a multi-purpose stadium that is central. The stadium is just part of the deal - they’ll also be saving the Junior hockey team. This group would be willing to let a MLS club be part of the picture. They have a CFL team under contract.
I would hate to see the SSS be supported with the end of a CFL and Junior team in Ottawa. Why not keep all three?
Maybe Eugene is worried that Ottawa will fall in love with a new Rough-Rider team and the 67’s will start drawing better than the Sens.
Eugene may be good at finance….but he can’t run a hockey team.
February 21st, 2009 at 8:12 am
Stephen, The CFL failing in Ottawa has to do with owner ship, go take a look at the guy who owned the team in 1996 and 2006! the same guy who took down the team. Soccer has failed in his city as well (Ottawa Wizards).
For me there is no question what team should come to Ottawa first, and its the CFL! I want a soccer team as well but there is no way i would go to Kanata for it! Build a stadium for both teams and do it downtown or the Glebe!
Lansdown live seems like a no brainier for me! I don’t know why its taking so long!
February 21st, 2009 at 10:14 am
I don’t know if Stephen is aware of it, but many of the defunct football leagues he mentioned are indoor football, which many football fans feel is not “real” football. I support local football from age 17+ but could not be bothered to watch the Arena League when it was televised because it’s too far removed from the actual sport.
However, if we’re “allowed” to include those in the argument, here’s a batch of former indoor soccer leagues.
* American Indoor Soccer League (United States)
* Continental Indoor Soccer League (United States and Mexico)
* Eastern Indoor Soccer League (United States)
* Major Indoor Soccer League (United States and Mexico)
* Major Soccer League (originally called the Major Indoor Soccer League)
* National Professional Soccer League II (originally called the American Indoor Soccer Association)
* National Soccer League (never played a game; not to be confused with the NISL)
* North American Soccer League (indoor and outdoor soccer league)
* Southwest Indoor Soccer League (evolved into the outdoor USL)
* World Indoor Soccer League (Originally the Premier Soccer Alliance)
I think that this part of the debate is outside the realm of relevance, since failed leagues in either sports in the States has nothing to do about which sport would be better supported here, but for the sake of equal footing, I thought it should be posted.
February 21st, 2009 at 11:11 am
You don’t think we should talk about past leagues JF? Well good, atleast that is one point we agree upon. If you read my previous posts then you would have seen that I felt they were not worth discussing. But due to the persistent discussions about former semi-pro soccer leagues and their supposed relevence to this discussion I decided to bring up a number of football leagues as well. Am I saying that becuase these football leagues failed that the CFL will also. No I am not. Was Gill and a host of other CFL supporters using former leagues to support their argument that an MLS team will fail? Yes they were.
The fact of the matter is that their are two sides to this debate and it is very unlikely that CFL fans and soccer supporters will see eye-to-eye. The fact is, however, that the CFL has had its chance. Bad owners or not, the CFL failed twice in Ottawa. Football may have some support in Ottawa but it has not been enough in the past to sustain a CFL team. If Ottawa wants to make the right choice and invest in the future then the obvious choice is to get an MLS team.
February 21st, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Stephen,
I am not telling you who you are and what you have done, but you keep bringing up your inaccurate, and non-concrete facts of why the CFL has failed here twice, which tells me that someone has not followed the CFL closely in this city. You mention that the teams lost money, and part of that was because of poor ownership, and mismanagement. The owners did not care about the fans. All they cared about is making a quick buck and run. But the fans continued to back this team no matter.
I would love to see MLS come here, but I have doubts about the league and the stadium. Despite 10 of the 13 not making a profit last season, MLS may not be in trouble now. But if those same number of teams continue to lose money in the near future, MLS could be in trouble.
I also heard that some of the expansion bidders (Montreal, now Miami) are not willing to fork over the $40US expansion fee, and want to renegotiate it, because they realize that it is too high especially in these troubled economic times. Montreal’s bid was put aside by MLS because of the issues dealing with the expansion fee.
As for Melnyk’s stadium, sure it has to be soccer specific to meet MLS requirements, but the disadvantage is that it is not going to be multipurpose to serve the entire city, and sports community. The city wants a stadium that is multipurpose that house various events such as concerts, football, soccer, international, community, and amateur sporting events. Even the mayor in a radio interview said that he prefers one stadium that is multipurpose, not just one sport alone. That is what Lansdowne Live is offering than what Melnyk is offering in his proposal.
February 21st, 2009 at 5:48 pm
CFL sucks… MLS is good, what else is there to say? CFL failed many times, MLS hasn’t failed anywhere so far. And don’t build it all the way out in Kanata, thats the worst idea i have ever heard in my life. It should be Lansdown 100%
February 21st, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Way to go Brian! You beat me to it. In addition to the 4 soccer leagues you mentioned there was a fifth league that also had Canadian teams playing in it that folded: the APSL. So there’s 5 FAILED soccer leagues that impacted Canada for you.
Stephen: You mistook what I wrote. My message was that there were soccer leagues that had Canadian teams playing in them that failed. All of the football leagues you listed were American with NO Canadian teams playing in them, so it has no bearing on this topic at all. The anti-CFL people always love to make the claim that CFL football has failed twice in Ottawa. The first team was here for 120 years; I don’t call that a failure at all (show me any Canadian soccer team that has lasted that long). The point is is that MANAGEMENT failed the Ottawa CFL teams on both occasions (and they were the same group too). The CFL fans coming to the games were more in Ottawa than they were in Toronto and Hamilton at one point, yet the then current management frittered away the money. The Hunt Group is a stable ownership group and has a vested interest in the team since they are local. I challenge the anti-CFL people to show me where pro soccer has had ANY success in Canada. The answer is simple - Soccer has NEVER been successful in Canada. The choice is clear - CFL for Ottawa!
February 23rd, 2009 at 9:16 pm
I don’t understand why anyone would say that Landsdowne Live is a no-brainer. There have been 5 straight polls (two in the Ottawa Sun, two on CFRA and the EKOS poll) in Ottawa that have all shown greater support for MLS/Kanata over CFL/Landsdowne.
The federal government are desperate for shovel-ready schemes to sink infrastructure stimulus into and if it isn’t possible to spin the money into both stadiums, then the better choice is to go with MLS/Kanata and develop the Landsdowne site without a stadium.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Dave Harrison: Online polls such as the ones run by the Sun and CFRA are easy to manipulate. I’ve described how before. Aside from that, at least one Sun poll (the one about what’s best for Ottawa) was posted on a message board for fans of Toronto FC to help give it a boost. I hope city council has enough sense to see through these kinds of games.
The EKOS one is far more legitimate, but all have a margin of error. You neglect to specify that soccer won by all of a 1% margin (I believe that it was 44 to 43). So let’s not act like it’s so clear-cut that interest in soccer is superior.
What was a landslide victory was Lansdowne as a location over Kanata. I’m not sure why there is not more noise to combine the MLS team with the Lansdowne proposal, or for the people behind the Lansdowne Live bid to pursue a USL franchise, which seems like a much better fit (with the Fury already in play here, a closer rival in Montreal, etc).
February 24th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Awesome point Dave!
February 24th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
All for bringing an MLS team to Ottawa!!! Sooner the better. Ottawa is soo boring.
February 24th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
We had twice had a CFL team in Ottawa, and both times it failed. Soccer is a growing sport in North America. 10 years ago Italy was the dominant league in the world of soccer, now its England. Give it another 10-15 years, it will be America.
With Ottawa being such a multicultural city, soccer is bound to succeed … just look at how many peopl came out to the U20 World Cup.
February 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
all i gotta say is this…how many times have we tried CFL and not succeeded….thats what i thought
February 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Dave, you have to look at how those polls were done, they were don’t publicly and not randomly, they polls were published all over soccer forms and people voted many times. the Citizen poll was done randomly and a much more accurate way.
I think the MLS is being ridiculous, there isn’t a MLS soccer specific stadium in this country (and that includes BMO, who has a lacrosse team, and the if the Whitecaps get an MLS team they will be sharing it with the Lions!)
February 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Count this as one more citizen’s vote for an MLS team. It doesn’t matter if the stadium is downtown or in Kanata, us soccer fans will be there. If Ottawa has an MLS team, I will be a season ticket holder as long as I live here.
February 24th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
What’s there to discuss, we’ve had an Ottawa CFL team a bunch of times already and it was never as big as its investors thought it would be in the capital. They should just let it go, and give MLS a chance. As for the proposed MLS team/stadium by Scotiabank, which I am rooting for, I think it’ll benefit with the creation of many attractions such as hotels, shopping centers and eatery’s. This will have a great impact on the Kanata area and will also be able to host future FIFA games and concerts if needed. MLS has shown promise in the US and I believe it will show promise for the rest of Canada if Ottawa gets a team!!
February 24th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
CFL football may very well be a viable option in this town, but it doesn’t have good recent history. The owner of our very own Ottawa Senators wants to bring an MLS team here. I am sure he had the option of approaching the CFL about a franchise. He chose not too. I am also sure he has done some initial marketing studies into his choice of sports. He is a business man first and has noticed that the best option for a money making franchise is one with a solid and ever growing fan base.
Lets drop the CFL for now and concentrate on bringing a stable Sports business into Ottawa.
February 24th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Me and some friends would 1000% definitely buy season tickets for this
February 24th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Obviously it has to be MLS. CFL, why don’t you jump on board and play out in Kanata?? If your interests were the sport, then you would have no problem playing in the same stadium as MLS. But clearly objectives are more steered towards revenue, and not desire for sport.
Kanata stadium just makes sense…parking, easy access, already home to the Sens, big space to build and we could go on and on….
The only bad thing is Melnyk, please don’t build apartments?? There are huge subdivisions being built merily 5 minutes away. We already have the centrum near by for entertainment. Do the stadium and that’s it…lets not overkill.
Can’t wait to see the ottawa MLS team, and maybe a CFL team….but playing out of kanata. Ottawa Amp for the team name???
February 24th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Please please please don’t bring in another soon to be defunct CFL franchise, it is such a waste of time in this city. MLS, if priced and marketed properly in Ottawa would not only have a regional fan base but would attract fans from Montreal and even Toronto who can’t get tickets to see Toronto FC.
Also, this is an opportunity to make ammends for the mockery known as Scotiabank place way outside the city. Build the stadium at Landsdowne or even better, Lebreton Flats.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
MLS. Come on, don’t be crazy. CFL is terrible, and hasn’t worked twice. Don’t beat a dead horse. Give the world sport its chance to shine here.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
have to totally agree with David Harrison. Why is there a debate even? Every study that I have seen, coming from Ottawa Sun Newspaper, CFRA and EKOS show much greater support for the true original football. The time for soccer is now. The popularity for soccer is stronger than ever, and Ottawa is the right place to get another MLS team in Canada. One just has to look at the FIFA U-20’s in 2007. The only Canadian city to sell out every game? Ottawa. If a team is not brought in now, The city will lose a lot because the interest in soccer I feel will go down, as we will give up hope of ever getting the stadium. I also don’t understand How people can say the location of the new stadium would affect anything while the SBP Arena fills up easily every game night. Since 2007, there has been a strong push for Canada to do something about our horrid national team. This is it. BRING THE MLS TO OTTAWA! Argentina 2010, Ottawa 2011.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
You asked if like soccer? Yes, my entire family plays — all five of us.
Would I attend games? Definitely, I have travelled to TO to watch the MLS and had a fantastic time. Great field, great atmosphere and decent level of soccer. I’ve also travelled to the US twice to watch European soccer teams and attended all of the U20 WC games in Ottawa. I attended the Olympic soccer games in Ottawa many years ago also. In the 35 years I’ve lived in Ottawa I have attended one CFL game — back when the Rough Riders where worth watching. The stands were half full and the game was boring.
I’d can guarantee that my family and I would attend MLS games in Ottawa should we get a team. I can’t see myself ever buying another ticket to a CFL game.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Let’s be serious for a second. The two attempts at having a CFL franchise have failed miserably. Attendance was never the best to say the least. In the two years that TFC have been around it has generated such positive publicity for the city for Toronto as well as a great atmosphere. As we all know Soccer aka football is the biggest youth sport emerging in the last 15 years and is one of the most if not the post popular sport among youth today. This has to do with the fact that it is a sport both genders can play at the highest levels and also be very entertaining. Back to Toronto FC they sell out every game every time. Seasons tickets get sold out in the first 45 minutes. A great man once said. IF you build it they will come, so make the right choice MLS is the future for Soccer in North America
February 24th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Dave:
Those ‘polls’ produced very skewed results for many reasons. The SUN poll for instance, was bombarded by soccer fans (the majority from outside the Ottawa area) as a result of an e-mail sent out by Melnyk’s group encouraging fans to vote. The results cannot be relied on.
The location of Lansdowne would offer patrons of football, soccer, concerts, trade shows, markets etc. the most in terms of accessibility as well as surrounding facilities. Lansdowne Live is the best choice hands down.
February 24th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
When the Renegades were here we still averaged close to 20,000 fans a game through Losing Seasons. I just can’t see an MLS team drawing anywhere close to 10,000 fans a game out in Kanata.
Yes we had some great crowds for international soccer in Ottawa but a soccer league will never catch on.
I want to see Landsdowne modernized and CFL return. We also have to think about the 67s, they need to maintain their home at Landsdown.
Having the stadium centrally located is the answer, lets get on with this project!!
February 24th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
I think that many of the CFL supporters here are mixing their facts about the historical success of soccer in this country. For instance, Toronto too had many a lower level pseudo “professional” team that never did particularly well in that market. However, when a truly professional team, with solid management and a decent place to play came to town, the masses flocked to become part of the action. Ottawa has a very similar past in terms of the soccer teams that it has housed. Bring a decent team with a good stadium, and the kind of management that SSE has and the results will indeed mirror those of TFC.
February 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Bring MLS to Ottawa already!! Enough of this talk of a CFL team. It’s clear only one can happen and the choice should be obvious in this day and age- pro soccer. Not sharing a stadium either. You cannot have professional games on turf. While some stadiums do exist- TFC, ask ANY professionals and they’ll say they hate it and it also reduces a player’s lifespan, it is just to hard on the body. Why do you think all the fields are natural grass in Europe/the rest of the world?? FC Ottawa, let’s do the damn thang!
February 24th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
MLS all the way!
February 24th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I would go to an MLS game. Couldn’t care less for the CFL. My vote is MLS.
February 24th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I fully support the bid to bring and MLS team to Ottawa. I’m a fan of Toronto FC and I travel regularly to see their games. I live in the east end of Ottawa and would have no problem traveling to Kanata to see North America’s premiere soccer league. I have already emailed the MLS group and told them I would love the opportunity to buy season tickets.
I also understand the MLS’s need to have soccer specific stadiums. It is very frustrating for a soccer fans to try and watch soccer on football fields. Imagine a hockey rink with 50 line across the ice. It’s very distracting. Ultimately I would love to see the MLS group and the CFL group share one facility at Lansdowne Park but it seems the two groups can’t work together.
The City of Ottawa has some big decisions to make. One is whether to support the development of a new stadium in Ottawa and if so which one. I want city staff, council and the mayor to know that I fully support the decision to build a new facility in Kanata or to redevelop Lansdowne Park into a facility that can support both an MLS and a CFL franchise while respecting the priorities of all groups involved. I do not support a redevelopment plan for Lansdowne Park that does not specifically involve the current MLS group. I believe city money and resources dedicated to a plan to redevelopment of Lansdowne Park with only the CFL group in mind is too large a gamble. CFL football in Ottawa has a bad history and there’s nothing about the current group that makes believe they are guaranteed to be successful. However Eugen Melnyk and Senators Sports and Entertainment have proven their ability to manage a high profile NHL team in a small market.
Good luck with your decision.
February 24th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
The CFL is dead. It’s the laughing stock for the other leagues across north america to look at and say what a joke. It’s the least recognized, least talked about, and definately least followed. Ottawa has tried a CFL franchise at least twice and its not a coincidence that it has failed both times. Soccer is the most watched, most played and fastest growing sport in the world. It is also the fastest growing sport in Canada. You wanna talk attendance records. Check the attendance records for the last season of the Ottawa Renegades and check attendance records for Ottawa when we co hosted the U20 world championships for soccer 2 summers ago. More then half the people in Ottawa are registered in some sort of soccer organization. How many people are registered in football? 5-10 thousdand? If that? The point is, Ottawa does not care about CFL football anymore and the interest is growing for soccer. Ottawa needs and deserves an MLS franchise. GO MELNYK
February 24th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
CFL is nothing compared to the NHL and it’s not that big but soccer is huge. It’s probably the fastest growing sport in the world. It is a very multi-cultural sport and isn’t Canada a multi-cultural nation?
There are a lot of kids leagues and MLS is pretty big, i mean look at Toronto FC and the revenue generated by their team?
Ottawa can be and will be better. There are a lot of people i know who are very passionate about the sport and would lost to see an mls team in Ottawa.
Next we’ll be featured in the Ea Sports Fifa series
February 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Having the CFL in ottawa has already been proven that it cant work . Mean while U-20 has been hosted in ottawa 2 years ago and it was very very sucessful so i think having a MLS team in ottawa will work out because of the large soccer population base in the ottawa region .
February 24th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
i saw up there something about scotiabanks location- come on now, have u not been around kanata lately? ive lived here for 18 yrs, and in the last 5 years its gotten huge and continues to do so- if they build a stadium right beside scotiabank itll be ‘downtown’ within 10 years..
like montreat…you have old montreal, and as we know it now, montreal
give it 10 years and we’ll have the byward market (todays downtown) then we’ll have downtown (centrum and beyond). kanata is expanding towards stittsville, carp, and richmond…we already cant go any closer to parliament. we’re expanding every way we can.
scotiabank isnt the problem
February 24th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Ottawa has had two chances with a CFL team in the past 10 years, and both have failed. Why not try something new and bring in a soccer team? Soccer is the fastest growing sport in the world, and there is no lack of fans in the Ottawa area…Just look at the registration during the summer AND winter.
February 24th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Soccer will soon be the number one sport in the world, everyone in Ottawa has played it at on time or another. CFL is nothing special, we’ve done without them for a couple years and there hasnt been many complaints.
I vote MLS.
February 24th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Gil…
===
Those ‘polls’ produced very skewed results for many reasons. The SUN poll for instance, was bombarded by soccer fans (the majority from outside the Ottawa area) as a result of an e-mail sent out by Melnyk’s group encouraging fans to vote.
===
Yeah, kind of like the sudden surge in soccer support here after several days of the same people commenting. Strange how that worked out, eh?
But to answer merrickpunk’s question…
“Obviously it has to be MLS. CFL, why don’t you jump on board and play out in Kanata??’
Because Melnyk has no interest in it. The Lansdowne Live people have an interest in soccer though.
This is why supporting Melnyk’s proposal is foolish. You can choose to have both at Lansdowne or only one in Kanata.
February 24th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
I think that it is time that we, as a city, give another sport a chance. We have already given football (CFL) lots of time to prove it self, and we have provided adequate facilities for our team to function. Soccer is the worlds game and it is rapidly growing in North America, our support for this sport needs to be shown. By building a stadium solely for soccer we are acknowledging and accepting the sport as a city. If a stadium is built for soccer it will not only create the opportunity to build a new neighborhood, mall, ect. it will also increase the attraction to the sport at all ages. The introduction of a soccer team in the MLS to Ottawa might also encourage local players to stay in Ottawa instead of moving to the US to play soccer, or to play with other teams, ex. Fury.
I think that if this stadium is built the team will do well and we will have a solid draw pool of athletes in the future for the new and growing team.
-Evan
February 24th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
I will be FIRST in line for season tickets if the MLS comes to ottawa. And the funny thing is most of my friends are the same. But none of them care about CFL.
MLS is thriving in toronto, and dont say it is because of their population because they could support 2 more teams! It is as hard to get tickets for a MLS game as a toronto maple leafs game.
And yes the demand for tickets in ottawa wouldent be the same but in no way would we struggle to get attendances.
GOO FOOTBALL (Soccer)!!!!!!!!!! hehe
February 24th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
A soccer stadium, downtown, or Kanata would be great for the city. I think that CFL has gone downhill for Ottawa. No one even seems to talk about it anymore. It would be great for the community if the new stadium was built by Scotabank Place. The main field itself for mino league tournies and the practice fields for game for Kanata Soccer, and the Golbourn Soccer Asscoiation. Soccer is big here, and it is loved. I’m pretty sure it will be HUGE if Ottawa gets the MLS franchise. Soccer brings people together, in an entertaining and fun way.
February 24th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
For the love of the city, please don’t choose CFL over MLS. CFL can wait a year or two, we’ll always have the option to join the CFL.
MLS, on the other hand, is now or never. We are so fortunate that cities like Montreal and New York have withdrawn their bids. If we don’t get this stadium plan approved, chances are in the next MLS expansion, there’s going to be an ample amount of other cities bidding that will out-shine Ottawa.
I have to reiterate, PLEASE DON’T PASS UP THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME CHANCE TO BRING MLS TO OTTAWA!
Aside from that, keep up the good work Mr. O’Brien!
All the best,
Nikki
February 24th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
The CFL seems like a risky investment seeing as we haven’t had a team in a very long time and when we did have the football team there weren’t many spectators. When the U-20 Fifa World Cup came to Ottawa, I had never seen the stadium filled up to the top in years! Since, I played competitive soccer it would be a joy to has an MLS team because the soccer community is rapidly growing and there are a lot of talented players in Ottawa that could play for the MLS team. Ottawa really needs this franchise!
February 24th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Fabulouso your point is outstanding! You have hit the nail on the head about what you have said about the CFL fans remarks!
CFL or MLS…. hmmm… NO QUESTION!!! MLS… DUUHHH!!
February 24th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
You guys talk about how its died and it will never work. well look down the road at Montreal same issue! they faild and now they got a team back AND ARE THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE! its all about the managment, the old teams didnt have good owners now we have a good owner it will work!
February 24th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Also G, the CFL isent dead its growing and has the highest attendence in 30 years! THIS IS THE BEST TIME FOR A TEAM! with the recesion a low priced sport will work perfectly!
February 24th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
I am 100% for the MLS franchise to hit Ottawa. I dont believe in spending the millions to cover the costs to rebuild and expand the current Landsdowne Park. CFL has had two attempts to field a team and have failed both times. In Canada alone there is over 800,000 soccer players and football comes in just over 400,000. Soccer if priced right and built right will attract and maintain the support it needs to outshine and outlast any CFl team to ever hit Ottawa again. And in terms of parking at Landsdowne, there is none. The location is too tight for any expansion to actually work for the increased parking needed if they were to house both teams in the same stadium. Its been covered in earlier posts but Soccer will always win over football in this city. to comment on Gil for CFL’s quote about CFL for Ottawa and soccer will always fail, looking at both sides, football has been given two chances to suceed and has failed miserably where as soccer will be given a chance and will surpass the poor performance the CFL franchise in Ottawa showed. I repeat the same remarks because its simple, soccer being the fastest growing sport in the world will remain in Ottawa 10 times longer than a CFL team would.
February 24th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
GUARANTEED SEASON TICKET HOLDER! soccer is an international sport. Ottawa is one of the most diverse cities in Ottawa, they go hand in hand! MLS is a must in this city, and will thrive in the years to come!
February 24th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
A team in Ottawa ia required for the MLS since we are the nations capital. Plus how many times have a CFL franchise been tried, like 5 and none have been successful. American football just dose not have the popularity anymore in Canada to be successful. When The FIFA U20 world cup came to Ottawa our city had the most ticket sales, IT WAS ALWAYS SOLD OUT!!!! Plus there are many cultural diversities in the city and they have all been brought up with soccer. Our team will be the best.
So please pick MLS IN OTTAWA the future of this sport in our city and for teenagers to follow there dream and become a profesional player and even play for our country is in your hands.
PLEASE MAKE MY DREAM AND MANY OTHERS A POSSIBILITY.
February 24th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
A team in Ottawa ia required for the MLS since we are the nations capital. Plus how many times have a CFL franchise been tried, like 5 and none have been successful. American football just dose not have the popularity anymore in Canada to be successful. When The FIFA U20 world cup came to Ottawa our city had the most ticket sales, IT WAS ALWAYS SOLD OUT!!!! Plus there are many cultural diversities in the city and they have all been brought up with soccer. Our team will be the best.
So please pick MLS IN OTTAWA the future of this sport in our city and for teenagers to follow there dream and become a profesional player and even play for our country is in your hands.
PLEASE MAKE MY DREAM AND MANY OTHERS A POSSIBILITY.
February 24th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
MLS no doubt.
February 24th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
CFL in Ottawa did not make it .. why try again. The stadium looked like a desert every time they was a game, for the U20 soccer world cup not only did it sell out but we also had people watching the games from the out side and across the street, now football is great sport but is not in Ottawa because it failed once already, soccer is not here because we have never gave it the chance. SO LET’S GIVE IT A CHANCE.
February 24th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
CFL is the worst and most miserable league in the world. Football (american) itself is nothing in a world perspective.. only in america where americans don’t even recognize that there is a CFL league. That itself says football has no future to Ottawa and Canada in general.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Yea so basicly cfl has folded twice here…and ottawa is a HUGE soccer community…we have two of the top rated development clubs in Ontario (nepean hotspurs and Ottawa South United) and we have many other top rated teams in ottawa aread (ottawa fury). There is a HUGE interest in soccer at Carleton University that would definatly bring out the supporters. Oh and lets not forget that we sold out every game of the U-20 world cup…only city in canada to do that (including toronto). So basicly why would you go with a sport that is losing popularity in ottawa, and now with a sport thats gaining one? seems like a pretty simple decision to me.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:33 am
Spencer,
Are you kidding me? The MLS has never had a team fail? Do your homework.
Back in the late 60’s - TV executives, and mis-guided team owners were told that “Soccer” was the fastest growing sport and that they would come from around North America to watch….
You know the rest…
And before you judge me, let me start by telling you that I was a season ticket holder for the Calgary Boomers, while they were here. We had a very successful team, but bad management (NASL) and the fact that it was hard to pull in fans that were traditional watchers of Hockey, Football, and Baseball. Most of the people that attended Boomer games were from somewhere else. I was told by many of those spectators that the NASL brand was sub-par to the rest of the world. And so it still is. Ask any true-blooded football fan - and they would rather watch EPL or any other league other than the MLS.
Dont forget that Ottawa will loose Junior hockey as well if they go with a SSS.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I’m not quite certain I understand this debate - we’ve seen our CFL franchise fail repeatedly over the last decade with no lack of effort from management. As many of you are saying, not only is the interest in euro football (soccer) growing exponentially in Canada, but it is the most played, watched and followed sport sport in the world, by a large margin.
On the flipside, I do believe that our downtown core (ie. Bank between 1st and Sunnyside) can use a serious makeover. With the City having access to private investment for the development of Lansdowne Park, it would be absolutely ludicrous for them to turn down what will, in my opinion, be a valuable addition to downtown Ottawa, that will attract tourists in the hundreds of thousands each year to visit the National Capital Aquarium, a concert, or the number of proposed retail shops/restaurants, not to mention the economic boost it would provide to struggling businesses in the Glebe.
The majority of metro cities I have personally visited in North America, Europe and Australia, host their sports arena’s or stadium’s in the downtown core. We need not look any further than Montreal and Toronto to experience the ‘buzz’ game day brings to the heart of the city. This begs the questions - why not bring our MLS franchise to downtown Ottawa, specifically to Lansdowne park? Maybe the two party’s (CFL vs MLS, or Melnyk and Co. vs. Hunt and Co.) should look at the possibility of a joint venture for the co-development of Lansdowne Park, one that wou,d be equally beneficial to each group.
It’s clear that the CFL has lost it’s fire in Ottawa, but the MLS is extremely exciting to watch and, more importantly, will bring out crowds that the city hasn’t seen in a long time.
I vote for MLS at Lansdowne Park, along with all other proposed developments of Lansdowne. I do not support yet another Ottawa team being banished into Kanata, better known as the 417 parking lot.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:48 am
MLS is much more popular, and would make a bigger impact on the community and a greater number of people would attend games, as apposed to CFL. We have tried to bring a CFL team into Ottawa numerous times, why try it again, why would we not change and bring soccer into Ottawa in a professional league.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
There have been a couple of posts in answer to my recent comment about polls showing increased support for MLS over CFL and I will try and address their points now.
1. Their first complaint was that internet polls are not scientific. This is true, but they do give an indication of support without the cost of a full referendum.
2. I hear people whine that MLS supporters put the word out to their friends etc about these polls and got them to vote as well. Again true, but CFL people did the same, although maybe not as effectively, which is another indicator of more support for MLS. I certainly saw CFL message boards where the poll addresses were posted and people urged to vote.
3. I hear people complain that you can vote multiple times on online polls, but this is not as easy to do as people suggest, and I don’t think many people really achieve it. It is one thing to clear cookies on your computer and appear to vote multiple times, it is quite another to actually have your extra votes be counted without changing IP addresses etc. I would also imagine that people from both sides may try and vote multiple times
4. Another reason that I said there was more support for MLS over CFL is that many of the internet poll questions split the MLS vote and still showed greater support. For example, the latest poll I saw was the CFRA poll which asked about the best location for a new stadium (Kanata, Lansdowne or other). Kanata won by about 7%, but I’m sure that there were MLS fans that would rather see soccer at Lansdowne than Kanata and voted accordingly. The earlier Sun polls that were straight choices between MLS or CFL were 2-3x in favour of MLS
5. Somebody noted that the EKOS poll was the most scientific and the closest, with MLS only coming out 1% ahead of CFL. Remember, this was also the oldest poll, commisioned last year by the CFL group and the results kept private until mid-Feb. This poll was taken before the recent surge of support for MLS that came as it looked possible that a franchise might actually happen and it was only released to coincide with CFL commisioner’s visit to Ottawa. EKOS admitted that there were no plans to release this poll at all until Mr. Cohon’s remarks. I find it interesting that the CFL group would dig out an old poll that showed them losing the popularity battle with soccer, because it showed them not losing by much. Smacks of desparation to me.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Kel said “Dont forget that Ottawa will loose Junior hockey as well if they go with a SSS.”
This is just scaremongering from Jeff Hunt and is a cheap tactic that should be beneath him. The 67’s could play perfectly well at Scotiabank Place with the third level blocked by curtains, as it is for smaller concerts. If Hunt wants to be a sore loser and pack up his toys and take them home if a SSS is the winner, then he could sell the team to someone else, maybe Eugene Melnyk.
There will still be junior hockey in Ottawa is we build a SSS.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Guaranteed MLS season ticket holder for sure.
Soccer does not have a large following in Canada unlike CFL football? What is the fastest growing sport in Canada… is it football? I will tell you one thing it is not the kind of football played with a pigskin, it is european football or as we refer to it over here, soccer. The fact is that there is a great deal of interest for soccer in Canada. For example, the U-20 World Cup was the most succesful ever! There were more supporters in Canada at the U-20 World Cup then there ever has been, in any other country! Furthermore, look at the success of the Toronto FC MLS franchise. It is has been a massive success! It is one of the greatest supported teams in the entire league. The fact is, there is a great deal of interest for soccer in Canada and there is a great deal of interest in soccer within the Ottawa area. If Ottawa does get an MLS franchise it will not be a mistake. The only mistake would be getting another CFL franchise. Please bring a football team to Ottawa… just not the type of football team that plays with an oval shaped pigskin ball… bring a proper football team to Ottawa.
there is only one, only one, only one real option
the only option is…. MLS!!
February 25th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
It’s funny how little some of these so-called sports fans know about the CFL. Hands down, the CFL is the second most popular league in Canada. CFL ratings crush basketball, baseball, and yes, soccer ratings. The only league that consistently draws more viewers than the CFL is the NHL. Every city except Montreal gets 25,000 fans to each game, and the only reason Montreal doesn’t is because their stadium doesn’t seat that many yet.
As has been clarified SO many times already, the reason the CFL failed in Ottawa is because of horrible, apathetic, non-local ownership. Jeff Hunt and his group solve that problem. He’s proven himself as president of the 67’s. People were worried the Senators would run the 67’s out of town. Instead, Hunt turned them into one of the strongest franchises in the CHL.
For comparison, if the Senators were to start going through the same pattern the Rough Riders went through from 1979 through 1996: The Senators would not have a winning season between now and 2036. The closest they’d come would be .500 seasons, in 2013 and 2032. In addition, the Senators ownership would be from the States, having never lived in Canada, and they would try and overhaul the entire franchise to work in an American city. On top of that, the Senators would not make the playoffs at all between 2014 and 2036. So before you ignorantly assume that football is dead in Ottawa because it didn’t work out originally, ask yourself how strong the NHL would be in Ottawa if the Sens didn’t have another winning season before 2036, to go with a 12-year playoff drought.
Just because the MLS is working well in Toronto DOES NOT mean it will work just as well in Ottawa. Does anyone remember the Ottawa Rebel? Lacrosse was supposed to be a sure thing in Ottawa, since it was a huge success in Toronto. But the Rebel only lasted for 3 years. It’s funny too that they first tried to play out of Scotiabank, but when no one came to watch their games, moved to the Civic Centre (aka Lansdowne).
People will not come from Toronto or Montreal to watch an MLS team in Ottawa. People don’t care that much about soccer. Soccer has ALWAYS been the most popular sport in the world, and there have ALWAYS been more kids in Canada playing soccer than anything else. The longest a pro soccer league has survived in North America is 16 years. The MLS is currently entering its 14th season. It has a long ways to go before being considered a “sure thing”. On the other hand, the CFL and its predecessors has been around since the early 1900’s.
I’m not even against bringing an MLS team to Ottawa. But it makes no sense to have to choose between an MLS team and a CFL team. Why not upgrade a centrally-located stadium that is willing to accommodate BOTH a CFL team and an MLS team?!? This makes way more sense than spending more money, including way more public money, to make a brand-new stadium out in suburbia that is so inflexible it will only host one type of event.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Greg says: “There is a HUGE interest in soccer at Carleton University that would definatly bring out the supporters. Oh and lets not forget that we sold out every game of the U-20 world cup…only city in canada to do that (including toronto).”
Greg, please…Carleton’s huge interest?? Have you seen their attendance numbers?? Go the CIS site and see for yourself.
And Ottawa did not sell out every game of the U20 tournament, that is incorrect. soccercanada.comwill show that. They did great, don’t get me wrong, but what you’re saying is not accurate. They sold out about half
I believe Ottawa did, however, sell out the Grey Cup, which gets conveniently ignored.
So where are all you soccer lovers when the Ravens and Fury play to under 300 people every game? Why do you not love this great sport enough to support local teams, yet expect that everyone will believe you would do so now?
February 25th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Aaron: “Plus how many times have a CFL franchise been tried, like 5 and none have been successful. American football just dose not have the popularity anymore in Canada to be successful.”
Good lord…There have been two teams, and one of the unsuccessful ones lasted a mere twelve decades. And it’s not American football.
You might just be getting confused with how many times soccer teams have flopped in Ottawa. I know, it’s easy to lose track.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
“Fabulouso your point is outstanding! You have hit the nail on the head about what you have said about the CFL fans remarks! ”
He does, Stephen? So why do you disregard that same argument when it is applied to football (Canadian football, Aaron)? Failing due to mismanagement is okay for soccer, but when it happens in football, it’s cold hard evidence that CFL here can never succeed?
The fact, Stephen, is that no matter how little you like to hear it, soccer had never drawn a crowd here, and does not do so now.
That Toronto FC succeeds is no more relevant than if I were to argue that since Montreal constantly sells out its football stadium, we will do the same for a football club.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
What is JF insinuating with this comment:
Yeah, kind of like the sudden surge in soccer support here after several days of the same people commenting. Strange how that worked out, eh?
Are these soccer fans not allowed to share their opinions? Are there opinions not as valuable or acceptable as yours or the other CFLers?
February 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
CFL for Ottawa! It is really the only choice we have that makes any sense at all. MLS hasn’t even awarded a team to Ottawa. The CFL has awarded the Ottawa Rough Riders back to us here in Ottawa. Get Frank Clair stadium rebuilt and welcome back the CFL!
February 25th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Jeff Hunt was on CFRA radio at noon today “the Lunch bunch” show. He said that right now Landsdowne is costing the city $4 Million a year in maintenance.
His proposal will see the city making $2 to $2.5 Million a year in revenue form the retail/commercial proposal alone. The total revenue for the city over the 30 year lease would be $100 million!!
Lets get on with this thing- Lansdowne Live CFL footbal.
Yes we could also fit in soccer at Frank Clair, but not sure about this MLS. We’ve been hearing for years about soccer being the No:1 sport in the world and most watched etc. - but not here!! The ratings for soccer are terrible in this country. Yes its played by a lot of us but its not the specatator sport that it is in other countries.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
now i’m pro soccer but how about before we go ahead and build a soccer stadium way out in the middle of nowhere we make sure ottawa is actullay getting a team, in no way shape or form has there been anything on writing that if ottawa does indeed build a stadium we will get a team it all that has been said is that its PROBABLE which to me is not enough to go on with my tax money,
February 25th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
The CFL is Canada’s treasure league and play for our historic Grey Cup trophy that has been in existence since 1909. I don’t follow soccer but it’s a great game although my preference is for American ie. gridiron football. But a stadium to do both is the way to go, excluding either just doesn’t seem to make any sense to me. But I know soccer people who call our game “throwball” have migraines over the white lines even if they are able to be mainly washed out so I’m sure they are going to pitch the tune soccer is the only game. Go to it soccer only guys, we know the tune you’ve been playing and we expect you to keep playing it.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Jay Smith Said:
“His proposal will see the city making $2 to $2.5 Million a year in revenue form the retail/commercial proposal alone. The total revenue for the city over the 30 year lease would be $100 million!!”
Not sure I understand the math there, but even $100M over 30 years doesn’t sound like a very good return, when the City has to pay to renovate the stadium up front. I seem to remember figures in the range of $80-86M for that repair.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Football is not going to work out in Ottawa. It has not in the past and it will not in the future. Soccer is the sport of the future. Anyone that fails to see this cannot see past the end of their nose. You CFL fans are like an ostrich. You choose to bury your heads in the ground rather then come to grips with reality. The CFL cannot compete with the growing interest of soccer.
Good points Dave. I am looking forward to hearing JF and Gille attempt to piece together an argument to disregard your strong comments.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Kevin said:
“Just because the MLS is working well in Toronto DOES NOT mean it will work just as well in Ottawa. Does anyone remember the Ottawa Rebel? Lacrosse was supposed to be a sure thing in Ottawa, since it was a huge success in Toronto. But the Rebel only lasted for 3 years. It’s funny too that they first tried to play out of Scotiabank, but when no one came to watch their games, moved to the Civic Centre (aka Lansdowne). ”
So, if I understand you correctly, because the Rebel didn’t draw at Scotiabank Place, it’s a vote for Lansdowne, but you don’t mention that no-one went to watch their games at Lansdowne either, probably because Ottawa is not a Lacrosse city (if there is such a thing). Personlally I don’t remember anyone saying that Lacrosse was a sure thing in Ottawa. In fact I don’t remember anyone talking about Lacrosse at all.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Kevin
Your a bit off with the rebel.They did very well at the scotia bank play then they moved to the civic centter and had issues.I have no idea whyyou think it would be way more public money for melynk stadium when its all said and done its about the same as hunts The soccer stadium can hold more then one event.
February 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
GO MLS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!4 ever Soccer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
The MLS has is currently succeeding in Toronto and I feel if given the chance, the sport would thrive in Ottawa. The history of CFL in Ottawa is bleak, while a new start with a soccer club would help incorporate the very multiculturalism Ottawa is struggling with.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
The CFL’s on the upswing, so go with the hot hand and build Landsdowne Live. Besides, this stadium can house both football and soccer, whereas a soccer specific stadium obviously can’t.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Ottawa has had a CFL team before and failed. Wasnt very successful at all. I think its highlight was the fact that Ottawa played host to the Grey Cup.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
People!
Must I say this again? We will always have the opportunity to join the CFL, IT CAN WAIT A YEAR OR TWO. MLS IS NOW OR NEVER. Are people not aware of how hard it is to get into MLS? MLS will choose 2 teams out of 5 end of March. We need to get this. MLS will not be expanding again for many years to come, and when they do, there will be cities in the North East like Montreal and New York bidding that will most definitely be selected before Ottawa does.
Again, MLS IS NOW OR NEVER. CFL can wait a year or two.
When Eugene Melnyck says “BRING THE WORLD TO OTTAWA”, he means it. Imagine the international friendly matches TEAM CANADA would host!! Imagine we host another world cup!! Imagine the hype in the city!
No disrespect to CFL, but as great of a game it is, be honest, as big as it is, and as big as it can possibly get, it will always be limited to CANADA. MLS WILL BRING THE WORLD TO OTTAWA!!!
February 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
The following clip was taken from the Sports Business Journal dated November 03, 2008:
The league’s mixed results at the gate were mirrored in its performance on TV. MLS games on ESPN2 averaged a 0.2 cable rating for the third consecutive year, but total average viewers per game fell to 253,000 — down from 289,000 viewers in 2007 and 263,000 in 2006.
And here is a clip taken from the TSN.ca website dated November 05, 2008:
This year’s regular season average viewing for 72 CFL games on TSN (includes one game on TSN2) was 393,000 compared to 371,000 last season.
Last years Grey Cup was seen by 3.65 million Canadians. Can someone tell me the number that the MLS championship had in viewership?
And as far as the argument that soccer is the most played sport in the world…let’s face the facts….most of the world is poor, and soccer is a sport that is cheap to play. I coached soccer and I would say that a good percentage of the kids didn’t want to be there - it was just a baby-sitting service while their parents popped out to Futureshop and StarBucks.
Please don’t take me the wrong way. I like soccer. I just like football better. But I feel that there is enough room for both - but it’ll have the be in Landsdowne.
BTW - Geno should “blow up” that hockey team….here’s hoping he’s not too close to the blast….
February 26th, 2009 at 4:47 am
Haha wow … reading all this is like going back to 2006 when Toronto was trying to build stadium to enter MLS and we had all these anti-soccer people saying how the team would struggle to draw 10,000 fans and the club would fold within 2 years. Good times.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:37 am
MLS teams have been getting closer and closer to profitability each year as they have been moving into their own stadiums one by one, where they control all the revenues and scheduling. The reason they’re still not there yet is that two big market teams with the worst rent/concession deals and highest losses don’t have their own stadiums yet. As soon as their stadiums are built (one currently under construction and the other in negotiation phase) the league will be in the black, as the other teams won’t have to subsidize their losses anymore. Then it becomes a whole new ball game where the owners keep reinvesting their profits to grow the league and the sport.
February 26th, 2009 at 8:29 am
To comment on JF’s remarks about Ottawa not drawing a crowd here, its funny you have to look back at both CFL seasons where there was very little fan base to each and every game and if they were such a huge success and if Ottawa is really a football city then why did both teams fail miserably. I am both a football fan and soccer fan but Ottawa just cant hack the fans to keep a football team running. bringing in MLS brings in multiple teams already based in the states and potential to have international tournaments posed to Ottawa’s stadium. Logically why try a 3rd time for CFL when MLS could actually make the city money. ane was comment a few days ago about every city execpt Montreal bringing in 25000 fans, i certainly know we are not talking about CFL. I have been to one game and one game only and it was a poor turn-out. there are die-hard football fans in here and im not bashing you personally but its a dying sport in Ottawa. try something new ,that being MLS… every soccer,hockey,baseball,basketball fan has watched Ottawa try to maintain two football teams, it didnt work. so drop the chance for the 3rd attempt and stop wasting our tax money and put it towards MLS for a chance. Stop beating a dead horse.. I would love to see people who are apparent die-hard CFL fans to see the league tank again… what would be the comments then, there wouldnt be any….. also someone said no one would travel from montreal or Toronto to see an MLS game, how would you know that.. Ive travelled to Montreal and Toronto to see MLS games, ive gone to Montreal for the World Cup Qualifiers, that is a soccer fan.. we travel to games outside Ottawa. MLS is in.. the City needs to review this comment. “Out with the old and in with the New”
February 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Bring the MLS to Ottawa!!!
February 26th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Larry,
You only need to look at the success of the Toronto MLS franchise to realize it would be great to have a soccer team of that calibre in Ottawa. As a former elite level soccer player in Ottawa, I must say that besides the work of a recent club that will not be named (FURY), it is near impossible to develop as a player. The national squad focuses on kids in Toronto or Montreal and the travel to these venues for a 2 hour nightly practice is a disgrace. An MLS franchise would allow the thousands of soccer players to circumvent the national program, develop as a player, and at least have a shot at becoming a professional. Rather than continue to bore you, i will state that it is clear as day that this city should support the MLS over a CFL franchise.
wake up and smell the coffee. no debate.
February 26th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
KEL QUOTE: “And as far as the argument that soccer is the most played sport in the world…let’s face the facts….most of the world is poor, and soccer is a sport that is cheap to play. I coached soccer and I would say that a good percentage of the kids didn’t want to be there - it was just a baby-sitting service while their parents popped out to Futureshop and StarBucks.”
ROBERT QUOTE: “Soccer as a spectator sport in Canada is NOT viable. Many children play soccer because it is cheap and does not require a lot of practice unlike hockey or football. Little children kicking around a ball on a Saturday afternoon does NOT translate into viewers in seats at a stadium watching a game. When they grow up, they abandon the game.”
Apparently soccer is just for very poor people and the MLS cannot work in Ottawa because those who play soccer can probably not afford to pay for a ticket. What a sleazy argument!
February 26th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“To comment on JF’s remarks about Ottawa not drawing a crowd here, its funny you have to look back at both CFL seasons where there was very little fan base to each and every game and if they were such a huge success and if Ottawa is really a football city then why did both teams fail miserably.”
Fail miserably? The Rough Riders were around for 120 years. No soccer team has come close to lasting even one decade. Maybe if one had half decent attendance, any claims to wild support for the MLS would be somewhat believable.
The argument I’ve heard is that the soccer teams were not at the same level. Fair enough. But then, the Ottawa Sooners junior football club was founded in 1960 and is still going strong. The Myers Riders were started in the mid-70’s, if my memory is sound, and are still going strong at several age levels.
These aren’t just in-city teams. I don’t know if they are comparable to what we used to have in the Intrepid and the Wizards and currently have in the Fury (wasn’t there a team called the Tigers or something in the 70’s too?). But the bottom line is no comparable soccer team has lasted more than handful of seasons here. And once again, while Carleton’s men’s soccer team plays in front of about 300 people, Ottawa U.’s football team plays in front of 1500.
Could the MLS be different? Sure. But those that are making it sound like it’s a sure thing are basing themselves entirely on speculation. The closest thing to evidence of spectatorship is the attendance for the above clubs, and it’s not good.
As far as another football team is concerned, assuming that it can not succeed here is judging Jeff Hunt based on the action of the previous owners. It makes little sense to me.
Compare Jeff Hunt against Jeff Hunt. Based on how he runs the 67’s I think we can assume that the won’t be starting offensive Mardi Gras promotions like the Renegades did or drafting a dead players like the Rough Riders did. The 67’s attendance tripled under his watch. He knows what he’s doing and he’s respected among sports fans.
February 26th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Being a soccer fan, I am in full support of MLS coming to ottawa. I am not gonna go into why ottawa should get MLS over CFL, but i wanted to give two points. Firstly, I truly believe for MLS to truly succeed in ottawa and become somewhat of a soccer town, the stadium must be somewhere more inside the core of the city, somewhere like Lebreton flats, or something close to downtown. Even Landsdowne park would be great, it would be like a real UK football experience. Another important thing would be good interaction between the club front office and supporter groups, hopefully a supporter group is started up. Ive followed toronto and their supporter groups a bit and seen all the problems theyve had with the front office that could have been easily avoided. Communication is key.
February 26th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Bring the CFL to Ottawa and leave soccer to Europe where it belongs.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:19 am
pathetic soccer poople. this mls league does nothing for Canada. The only thing canadian would be the city it plays in and it’s owner. There are approx 200 hundred canadians playing in the CFL, also we have canadians coaching in the CFL. can this be said about the mls. I think not!
oh wait there is that one guy that was drafted by tfc(totally friggin crap)team. Can anybody name him!
go ahead and google mls soccer draft that’s when how you will find out!
February 27th, 2009 at 8:05 am
Nikki Santoro - you got it bang on!!
I can’t see any way we will get MLS in Ottawa if it doesn’t happen this time around. And there is only one person interested in paying the $50M CDN expansion fee and that is Eugene Melnyk, and that investment only works for him in a soccer-specific stadium in Kanata.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Serious question for the soccer supporters: If the Lansdowne Live proposal came with bid for a USL club, would you back it? Or does it have to be MLS?
I ask because from I’ve read, USL seems like a better fit. We already have a developmental team in the league, if I’m not mistaken there are two other Canadian teams (and Hamilton looking to come on board) including a more “natural” rival than Toronto and I’ve seen (thought not read) articles questioning whether the level of play is much different.
Is it pro soccer you want, or the MLS specifically? If MLS, why? Is it because MLS is so much better or because it’s the one that is offered?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I can’t see how any rational person would accept a proposal for a soccer specific stadium in Ottawa when:
1: We don’t even have a team awarded to us.
2: Soccer has failed 5 times in Canada already in 40 years as people have mentioned.
The CFL has been going for nearly 100 years and is a more exciting game, is truly Canadian, has more fans in this country and has the exposure to keep attracting fans. The football fan base is here in Ottawa and growing in addition to western Quebec. 66,000+ at the Grey Cup? Just a pipe dream for soccer in Ottawa.
Ottawa Rough Riders, here I come! Build Frank Clair stadium NOW!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Stephen, football is a sport of the past you say. Why are the Cowboys moving into a 1 billion dollar stadium this upcoming season and LA has just committed to bulding an $800 mill stadium? Ok, whatever you say there. And 65,000 at this years Grey Cup in Montreal. Did you forget about that or the sold-out game in Toronto last year and the Argonauts weren’t even in the game!
Look, soccer is a great game like I said. But why don’t you consider what Bob Young is doing, with our new stadium that we may be getting in Hamilton, he is applying for a USL-1 team which, BTW, can play agains’t TFC in the Canadian championships and go onto the CONCACAF tournament anyways? The skill level isn’t that much below MLS and for pete sakes, the the Impact beat TFC! And USL-1 franchises don’t demand this “white line” stuff to be gone nor a soccer specific stadium.
If the MLS is so hot, my didn’t even Beckham’s presence move TV numbers hardly at all in the US? Think about it for a minute.
Why would any city want to committ to a stadium for soccer/football and automatically rule out the other to play, if it’s being built with public funds, is beyond me.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Soccer leagues failed 5 times in Canada? WOW! I had no idea that soccer had such a poor showing in Canada.
The Canadian Football League has fared much better in Canada than soccer has. My vote would be for CFL football. It would be nice to see some professional gridiron action in Ottawa again. Jeff Hunt has had a lot of success with the Ottawa 67s and I’m sure he can translate that success to a new CFL team. It would be great to have a hands-on management group at Lansdowne managing the front office of the CFL team too. Since Jeff Hunt is already there with the 67s it would be a perfect match.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Football failed miserably…Why not give soccer the opportunity to succeed
February 28th, 2009 at 9:18 am
MLS is definitely required!!!
this is the best way to get kids excited about sports again. I would have LOVED this when I was a kid. Every great thing has to start somewhere, we will be building the athletes and leaders of tomorrow!
February 28th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
There were two good opinion pieces in the Ottawa Citizen today.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/…820/story.html
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/…949/story.html
The columnists both seem to have moved ahead of the council in their decision making process and there are no more suggestions about MLS and CFL sharing a stadium, or building at Bayview or Carleton; just opinions that it is time to look at the individual proposals on their own merits.
The Melnyk bid appears to be much simpler and much better thought out. They know how much it is going to cost and how they are going to get the various levels of government to chip in. Cost $110M, 1/3 each from Feds, Province and City.
The Hunt Group sound very confused. They don’t know how much the stadium will cost, Richard Starnes suggested maybe $120-130M when you factor in the city having to pay for underground parking to replace all the spaces that they are going to build on. They note that the city currently pay around $4M a year to maintain the site and they suggest that the city borrow the funds to renovate the stadium, with the loan repayments totaling the same $4M a year. Their claim is that this makes it a neutral cost option for the city - pay the maintenance or pay the interest.
There are three major problems that I see with the Hunt proposal. The first was pointed out by the Randal Denley article - that loan repayment will likely only get you around $55M, nowhere near enough to build the stadium.
The second problem I have is with the claim that it is a cost-neutral solution. It is only cost-neutral if the city were planning on leaving Lansdowne vacant for the next 30 years and so would have had to continue with the maintenance costs. I know that councils can move slowly, but I’m sure that they would have it resolved quicker than that.
Thirdly, it is a terrible option from an economic perspective. Even if you could build a stadium for $55M, why would you want to pay $120M for that stadium when you add the interest charges in ($4M x 30)?
March 1st, 2009 at 9:47 am
Do the right thing Mr. Mayor. The CFL and Soccer can co-exist in one venue. Hamilton is going to build a stadium to house football, scoccer, etc. In these tough times we need a facility that has a milti-purpose, not one dimentional. It only makes CENTS !
The CFL is open minded and willing to share. The Lansdown area including its short proximity to downtown will benefit greatly from this stadium.
March 1st, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Soccer has already had its chance - 5 times, and it has failed 5 times in Canada.
CFL has a much better chance of success in Ottawa and it has the numbers to back it up. Bring back the CFL to Ottawa Mr. Mayor.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 am
Soccer supporters are lambasted day in and day out on this blog for bringing up so-called useless, outdated, american information which has no meaning whatsoever to this discussion and yet we have to constantly hear this kind of thing being written by the CFL supporters such as MIKE F:
“Stephen, football is a sport of the past you say. Why are the Cowboys moving into a 1 billion dollar stadium this upcoming season and LA has just committed to bulding an $800 mill stadium?”
????? What are you talking about? This is not even worth trying to respond to.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 am
Dave Reading… soccer has already had its chance you say… lol. I think if you are going to stick with that argument then you will not be much of a support to the CFL bid.
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
(In response to JF’s “serious question to soccer supporters” dated Feb. 27th)
JF, why do football fans want a CFL team here in Ottawa? I have been wondering, is it just professional football that you want or is it a CFL team specifically? How about an APFL team? Would that suffice? Can yu please clarify?
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 am
Although I do believe both CFL and MLS can co-exist, if I had to choose; the smart choice would be MLS. Soccer is one of the fastest growing sports in Canada and America. Just look at Toronto, and other cities that have been given new franchises in recent years. The amount of excitement that the city feels is unbelievable. Last week we saw pictures and clips from Montreal, where people wear out celebrating on the streets for a soccer game. Their is no reason why Ottawa would not have the same reaction. With all the foreign representatives, immigrants and two universities in our city, Soccer already has a huge advantage. Last, $$$$$. even students can afford MLS tickets. We can go for a forth try at CFL or you can give a MLS a shot. Personally I would love to see a multi-purpose stadium, where we can have both CFL and MLS in town. At the end of the day though, if they had to compete MLS will surely pull ahead.
Soccer is the biggest sport in the world. World cup Soccer is bigger than even the Olympics. It is the oldest sport, so old they don’t even know when it started. Soccer has been around ever since they started to record history. It’s time for Ottawa to be part of that Majestic Soccer History.
Does the Mayor actually sit and read all these?
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Mike F Said: “Why are the Cowboys moving into a 1 billion dollar stadium this upcoming season and LA has just committed to bulding an $800 mill stadium? Ok, whatever you say there. And 65,000 at this years Grey Cup in Montreal.”
Sorry I must have missed where Jeff Hunt was bringing in an NFL team !!! 65,000 for the Grey Cup Final is less impressive than 55,000 for the Montreal Impact game last week.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Rick Davis Said: “Soccer has failed 5 times in Canada already in 40 years”
This is not a relevant fact, and is easily countered by the fact that CFL has failed 2 times in the last 10 years in Ottawa alone.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Soccer again will outlast and win over CFL any day. Everything that comes out of a football fans mouth is CFL all the way, and quick comments about how they have the fan base.. people cant keep blaiming fan base on poor managment. I’m fairly certain the reason is because its just not successful in Ottawa and time to try something new, that being MLS in Ottawa. what are your comments going to be if the CFL was awarded their bid to go through, and lets say the team fails and Ottawa loses another CFL team. someone answer that please?
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
“To comment on JF’s remarks about Ottawa not drawing a crowd here, its funny you have to look back at both CFL seasons where there was very little fan base to each and every game and if they were such a huge success and if Ottawa is really a football city then why did both teams fail miserably.”
Fail miserably? The Rough Riders were around for 120 years. No soccer team has come close to lasting even one decade. Maybe if one had half decent attendance, any claims to wild support for the MLS would be somewhat believable.
The argument I’ve heard is that the soccer teams were not at the same level. Fair enough. But then, the Ottawa Sooners junior football club was founded in 1960 and is still going strong. The Myers Riders were started in the mid-70’s, if my memory is sound, and are still going strong at several age levels.
These aren’t just in-city teams. I don’t know if they are comparable to what we used to have in the Intrepid and the Wizards and currently have in the Fury (wasn’t there a team called the Tigers or something in the 70’s too?). But the bottom line is no comparable soccer team has lasted more than handful of seasons here. And once again, while Carleton’s men’s soccer team plays in front of about 300 people, Ottawa U.’s football team plays in front of 1500.
Could the MLS be different? Sure. But those that are making it sound like it’s a sure thing are basing themselves entirely on speculation. The closest thing to evidence of spectatorship is the attendance for the above clubs, and it’s not good.
As far as another football team is concerned, assuming that it can not succeed here is judging Jeff Hunt based on the action of the previous owners. It makes little sense to me.
Compare Jeff Hunt against Jeff Hunt. Based on how he runs the 67’s I think we can assume that the won’t be starting offensive Mardi Gras promotions like the Renegades did or drafting a dead players like the Rough Riders did. The 67’s attendance tripled under his watch. He knows what he’s doing and he’s respected among sports fans.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Football is not the right choice for the future of Ottawa sports. Even the arguments of the CFL fans on this blog clearly show how they are stuck in the distant past. The only consistent argument posted by various CFL fans on this blog reads as follows:
“The Rough Riders were around for 120 years.”
What does that have to do with the here and now? Yes, they WERE around for 120 years, but then they failed… tried again and failed again.
If everyone was as stuck in the past as these CFL fans seem to be then we would all be in trouble.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
“JF, why do football fans want a CFL team here in Ottawa? I have been wondering, is it just professional football that you want or is it a CFL team specifically? How about an APFL team? Would that suffice? Can yu please clarify?”
I would if I thought you meant it seriously. I truly did. If the question seemed ridiculous, I apologize, but I also admit to not being knowledgeable on the difference between the two leagues. That’s exactly why I asked.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 pm
“Dave Harrison Says:
Rick Davis Said: “Soccer has failed 5 times in Canada already in 40 years”
This is not a relevant fact, and is easily countered by the fact that CFL has failed 2 times in the last 10 years in Ottawa alone.”
Actually Dave, it is EXTREMELY relevant. The soccer fans decry the CFL in Ottawa - one city within an entire league that had one troubled team. I would not call the first time a failure (120 years in existence), but the myopic soccer fans seem to think so.
The point is is that not only can a Canadian soccer team not get its act together in Canada, the entire LEAGUES have gone under - 5 times in a short span of 40 years. The CFL is nearing its 100th birthday, with many teams having been in existence longer than any dreadful soccer team. Ottawa’s football record shines in comparison.
By going on these very RELEVANT facts, soccer is a bad choice.
Bring back the CFL. Any soccer team can share the field with the Ottawa Rough Riders at Lansdowne.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I say we need a Soccer League. I know more people who play soccer than football from Mississauga all the way up to here in Ottawa. Think back about a year and a half ago or so, the Euro Cup Juniors came to Lansdowne and everyone I knew freaked right out and bought tickets, and I’m talking of at least 25-30 people. I’ve loved soccer since I was probably old enough to play it, and played it till I was 15 or so, My girlfriend still plays, My two best friends play. I personally believe that Soccer would have a much longer lifespan here in Ottawa apposed to Football, and i would GLADLY give up my left leg to see soccer here in Ottawa!
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Again soccer does nothing for CANADA! Virtually no canadian player plays in any premier league’s in europe.
For a game that has been the fastest growing game for the past twenty years, has little or no great results in international play, why is that, because when they turn 10 years of age they move on to different sports thats why
March 2nd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
$50 dollars for the top ticket at the impact game last week. that was only in two small section. Start talking staight harrison. majority of tickets were sold for $10. I don’t think a GREY cup ticket is that cheap. GET your FACTS straight HARRISON.
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:11 am
I love this - CFL Fans making attendance comparisons between World U20 soccer, and the Grey Cup. If you want to make a REAL comparison, let’s compare viewership and attendance of Toronto FC to any CFL franchise (keeping in mind that TFC is still a very young franchise).
If the CFL is EVER to succeed, the league needs to put on their creative hats, and do something to make the game exciting…as it stands, it is absolutely PAINFUL to sit through ANY CFL game - regardless of the lame rivalries. Eight teams playing each other over and over and over…wow, how thrilling. So thrilling in fact, that our own local team failed twice over.
Soccer is hands down the most popular, most played, and most watched sport in the world. Time for Ottawa to recognize this, and get on board.
MLS at Landsdowne - not Kanata!
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 am
Stephen Says:
“What does that have to do with the here and now?”
Quite a bit actually. People such as yourselves say that there is no support for football in Ottawa, yet the published reports including a recent article in the Ottawa Citizen showed that average attendance at CFL games in Ottawa numbered over 20,000 on average - for a team that never had a winning season. Now THAT is support for CFL football.
Soccer has NEVER been successful in Canada. Even the attendance at the current games can’t come close to the CFL attendance. When a Canadian soccer team can last for 120 years then come and see me.
CFL for Ottawa it is - hands down!
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:56 am
GET your FACTS straight hammer time
I never mentioned ticket price at all. I only noted that the Grey Cup, the championship game for this wonderful 120 year old league didn’t draw many more fans than a quarter-final soccer game.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Rick Davis said “Ottawa’s football record shines in comparison.”
What colour of glassses are you wearing??? Ottawa’s football record does not shine in comparison to anything. Two franchise failures in 10 years and no local interest in paying a $7M expansion fee unless it is linked to a multi-million dollar property development deal.
That’s impressive!
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
JON C CFL average close too 400 thousand on TSN a cable network. not reachable to all peolpe in canada
soccer barely got 100 thousand on CBC, a main network that eveybody gets in canada, that has a T.V.
I believe Monty python had a skit on how boring soccer can be. I think you all should like it up.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
JON C CFL average close too 400 thousand on TSN a cable network. not reachable to all peolpe in canada
soccer barely got 100 thousand on CBC, a main network that eveybody gets in canada, that has a T.V.
I believe Monty python had a skit on how boring soccer can be. I think you all should look it up.
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
“I love this - CFL Fans making attendance comparisons between World U20 soccer, and the Grey Cup. If you want to make a REAL comparison…”
If you read a little closer, you’d see that many of us are actually saying that using the U20 as a guideline for what support for a local soccer team would be like is just as irrelevent as using Grey Cup attendance to measure support for a local CFL team.
Speaking for myself, I find comparisons to other towns just as pointless. I care no more for what’s going on in Toronto than you might care for what’s going on football-wise in Montreal.
Ottawa has supported football for an extended period of time. It never has for soccer, and isn’t doing it now. Amateur football currently draws far better than its soccer counterpart as well.
“it is absolutely PAINFUL to sit through ANY CFL game”
Matter of opinion, of course, not fact. I could certainly say the same for soccer.
“MLS at Landsdowne - not Kanata!”
At least you saved the best for last. E-mail this part to Eugene Melnyk. Lansdowne Live is open to housing soccer.
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:22 pm
“If everyone was as stuck in the past as these CFL fans seem to be then we would all be in trouble.”
You want to have it both ways, Stephen. You don’t want football supporters to make reference to 120 years of existence, or the quick collapse of teams like the Intrepid, because it’s in the past but you’re okay with soccer supporters referring to the team’s demise in 1996.
Go back to the beginning of this blog to see who first brought up the death of the Rough Riders. Hint: It wasn’t football fans.
I’m perfectly happy remaining in the present. Let’s mention it again; the Ottawa Sooners and the U. of O. draw about 1500 to the Fury’s and Ravens’ 300 for soccer. More people PLAY soccer, more people WATCH football.
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
John C Says: “If the CFL is EVER to succeed, the league needs to put on their creative hats, and do something to make the game exciting…as it stands, it is absolutely PAINFUL to sit through ANY CFL game - regardless of the lame rivalries. Eight teams playing each other over and over and over…wow, how thrilling.”
With ‘lame’ comments like that, it’s obvious that you know very little about the Canadian football game. Those rivalries have spawned games that still resonate in football circles. Things like the fog bowl, ‘the catch’, the trip have been discussed for decades, even Milt Stegall’s record-breaking year will be talked about for years to come.
Soccer on the other hand? No real defining moments that anyone speaks about in North America, other than a record number of games ending in 1-0. Talk about boring.
Bring the CFL to OTTAWA!
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Hammer Time’s FLAWED argument:
Again soccer does nothing for CANADA!
Virtually no canadian player plays in
any premier league’s in europe.
Hammer Time what is the premier football league? Is the CFL? No, it is the NFL. How many Canadians play in the NFL? Only 13. None of these players are elite by any means. Even the CFL, the Canadian football league, is totally dominated by Americans. When was the last time a Canadian player won the most outstanding player award in the CFL?
Your argument claims that NO Canadian player plays in a premier European League, how wrong you are:
- Julian De Guzman plays in Spain and was voted the top player at Deportivo by the fans last season
- Jonathon De Guzman plays for Feyenoord in Holland
- Paul Stalteri plays for Borrusia Mönchengladbach in Germany
- Marcel de Jong plays for Roda in the Netherlands
- David Edgar plays for Newcastle in the English Premier League
- Daniel Fernandes plays for PAOK in Greece
- Rob Friend plays for Borussia Mönchengladbach
- Richard Hastings plays for Inverness in Scotland
- Lars Hirshfeld plays for CFR Cluj of Romania who were in the Champions League this season
- Atiba Hutchinson plays for FC Copenhagen of Denmark who were in the UEFA Cup this season
- Daniel Imhof plays for Bochum in Germany
- Dejan Jakovic plays for Red Star Belgrade
- Mike Klukowski plays for Brugge in Belgium
- Tam Nsaliwa plays for AEK in Greece
- Kennedy Owusu-Ansah plays for Hertha Berlin in Germany who are top of their league
- Chris Pozniak plays for Dundee in Scotland
- Josh Simpson plays for Kaiserslautern in Germany
- Matthew Lam at Ajax in Holland
These are some of the Canadian soccer players who play in top flight leagues across Europe.
Hammer, I though you said that there were none? By your calculations, there is far more reason for Ottawa to get an MLS team then there is for Ottawa to get a CFL team. After all, our soccer players actually play at the highest level.
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Here is Gil repeating his argument over and over and over agian. Do you actually do any thinking before you add to this blog or do you just cut and paste the same stuff over and over again. That would make sense, afterall you are so focussed upon the past, you might as well stick to your old overused argument. It is all you have to contribute.
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Hammer Time YOU GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT… don’t point the finger at Harrison when your only point is as follows:
Again soccer does nothing for CANADA! Virtually no canadian player plays in any premier league’s in europe.
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:52 pm
More about how great this league is doing.
===
USA TODAY’s Michael Hiestand writes of Sunday’s Crew-Red Bulls MLS Cup final drawing a 0.7 overnight rating, “For anything to draw less than 1% of U.S. TV households on a broadcast network in a time slot when lots of people are watching is almost impossible.” However, MLS’ title game “hasn’t drawn 1% of households since 1997. That suggests there are limits to ABC/ESPN’s vaunted hype machine, and confirms this trend remains intact: As a spectator sport in America, soccer is the sport of the future — and always will be” (USA TODAY, 11/25).
===
I’m trying to locate a reliable source for it, but I’ve read that viewership for this thing in Canada (on CBC) was all of 65,000. The Grey Cup was 3.65 million (give or take).
March 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I’m pretty sure everyone has heard by now, Miami is officially out of the running for MLS. All that stands in our way now are these CFL fans.
Why can’t the CFL fans realize that MLS for Ottawa is a ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity, and joining the CFL will always be an option, for many years to come.
I don’t think Ottawa will ever get a MLS team if we don’t get it this time around. If and when the MLS does decide to expand again, the economy will be doing better, and chances are Montreal, New York, and Miami will be back and will surely out-bid us.
So please, CFL fans, let us have MLS now, and you can get CFL soon after that. I understand you love your sport, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, as big as CFL will ever be, even if every city and town in Canada get a team, it will always be limited to just Canada, no international games.
MLS will bring world-class teams to the city, and draw tens of thousands of crowds from around Canada and around the world.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Nikki: The CFL and its fans aren’t what’s “in your way”. The CFL fans would gladly share Frank Clair stadium at Lansdowne Park with the soccer fans. More sport is better than less sport IMHO, and I would like to see all parties come out on top in this matter. The MLS is the problem. They demand a soccer specific stadium and the capacity is too low to host CFL or other large scale events.
Besides, MLS expansion isn’t just limited to one year. It will expand again in the future. Given some of the troubles associated with the MLS, it could potentially fold or merge with another soccer league. Regardless of what league the team plays in, there will be plenty of opportunities in the future, but to exclude other events just because the MLS wants to have a “more intimate setting to play in” just doesn’t cut it for me as a taxpayer. I don’t want my tax money funding a limited use stadium for only a portion of the year that many residents will never attend. It is not an appropriate use of public funds.
March 5th, 2009 at 11:09 am
“Why can’t the CFL fans realize that MLS for Ottawa is a ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity, and joining the CFL will always be an option, for many years to come.”
It’s not that we don’t realize it. It’s that we don’t believe it.
CFL will always be an option? Eugene Melnyk has already stated that he doesn’t want anything to do with a CFL team in his stadium. So where would that CFL team play, exactly? The city has shown little willingness to support both bids, so it’s unlikely that another stadium would be built to house them.
The Lansdowne Live group, meanwhile, has been very open to housing soccer as well and has even tossed the idea of bringing MLS themselves, but will not do so while Eugene Melnyk has a bid out there. There were also rumours of a USL team prior to Melnyk’s bid being launched.
So I don’t buy the « once in a lifetime » stuff. Should Melnyk’s bid fail, Ottawa might very well be in the next round of MLS expansion regardless.
You act as though we’re being selfish when in fact the opposite is true. Supporting Melnyk is totally at the expense of an already-awarded football franchise. Supporting Lansdowne Live would still benefit local soccer teams in terms of available facilities, and would still leave open the possibility of an MLS franchise down the road.
March 5th, 2009 at 11:14 am
.
Two respected soccer insiders have received information that Vancouver is a lock for one of the franchises. One of the insiders also claims to have learned that Portland will be the other 2011 entrant, conditional on the passing of a bill on March 19th. The city’s advisory committee has recommend that the city support the bid.
http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/03/vancouver-and-portland-win-expansion.html
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/03/the-new-mls-expansion-frontrunner-vancouver.html
Regarding Ottawa, the one insider said that it will receive strong consideration in the next round of expansion, possibly for 2013, if they can get a stadium deal. However, his source said “all bets are off” if there are other American cities running against them
These are not official sources, so take it for what it’s worth.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
MLS is the logical choice:
- It has greater support than the CFL according to all recent polls.
- Melnyk has a better financial plan for a stadium, that doesn’t involve huge interest payments.
- MLS in Kanata would still allow Ottawa to develop Lansdowne into a world class area, not just a stadium and an aquarium.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Like Cohon said of the CFL last week, Football Canada is proud of Canadian heritage and “its legacy of significant contribution to the cultural fabric of Canada,” as it said in its literature handed out yesterday at the press conference.
There is no denying soccer’s grassroots appeal in our country (about 870,000 total registered players in Canada according to the Canadian Soccer Association website), but football has been making its own gains, said Munro.
There are more than 400,000 participants, according to Football Canada, playing one of the sport’s three disciplines: Tackle, flag and touch football.
“In 1994, we had 8,000 members in Quebec. Now we have 27,000-28,000,” said Munro. “That’s part of the reason there was such a great turnout for the Grey Cup in Montreal.”
Both the Hunt and Melnyk groups are looking for about $80 million in funding for their stadium plans from the various levels of government. For that type of investment, all of the stakeholders in the future of sports and entertainment in our city deserve to have their voices heard.
Will the numbers are there in black and white so if your football fan …stop living in dream Melnyk’s a amart man he did the math! Lets see Over 800.000 registered soccer supporters over 400.000 cfl supporters ,Twice a franchise crash versus a sure thing I know , I know I have to draw diagrams for all you football fans , that’s the only way you’ll understand, ” The Beautiful Game ” is coming to Ottawa and it will stay strong forever … Brasil #1*****
Jorginho!! peace and love to all sport lovers!!
March 5th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
“Dave Harrison Says: MLS is the logical choice:
- It has greater support than the CFL according to all recent polls.
- Melnyk has a better financial plan for a stadium, that doesn’t involve huge interest payments.
- MLS in Kanata would still allow Ottawa to develop Lansdowne into a world class area, not just a stadium and an aquarium.”
- The recent polls were skewed due to mass e-mailings by the soccer group and propped up by soccer enthusiasts outside of Ottawa - people who will never set foot in Ottawa to see a match. The polls are unscientific and not trustworthy.
- Melnyk’s plan changes regularly and mimics what the Hunt Group has already proposed for Lansdowne. Lansdowne would still remain public land with the ability to attract other large scale events over and above football, giving the city additional revenues. The soccer stadium is smaller and unable to attract other large scale events limiting its use and revenue generating capability.
- A tiny single purpose stadium with hardly any local attractions isolated in one end of the city that is difficult to get to at the best times of the day will not draw and retain significant numbers. A stadium in the heart of the city with local transit that is easily accessible by ALL residents of Ottawa as well as Gatineau also offers many local services within walking distance as it has for decades.
The choice is CRYSTAL CLEAR - CFL and Lansdowne for Ottawa!
March 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Nice points Dave
March 5th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I would have to say the following;
Soccer is the SPORT of the world, (just like Rugby :-);
It is a very acessible and everybody can play;
Parents can send their kids to play in a league and won’t need a second mortgage every year after their kids grow more than an inch between season for equipment;
It is played by both males and females across the world;
And it is MULTICULTURAL:
So why is it so hard to choose for something that can only benefit the whole region???
Keep everything in Kanata,
Get an EXCELLENT and FAST transit solution (What the heck, hire the Disney company if they can do it, why cant the Capital of a country like Canada??)(Ottawa to the Palladium shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes!!)
Make the game tickets affordable. AND LETS PLAY FOOTBAL!!!
March 5th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Personally, I would rather have the CFL (Ottawa Rough Riders). The Canadian game is much more exciting than the NFL, although I watch that too. I don’t feel that soccer has caught on in Canada to the degree that people think. I think it’s still in its infancy, and will take a little while to build. My vote is for the CFL. Thank you.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Jorginho: You forgot to mention that of those 800,000+ “registered players”, the vast majority of those are little kids kicking around a ball on a weekend morning. That definitely does not translate into paid match goers in stadium seats.
Now compare the number to ACTUAL football fans published in the Ottawa Citizen - an average of 20,000+ Ottawa fans per game. Those are numbers that MLS can only dream of.
And the only “sure thing” that can be associated with MLS is failure. 5 failed soccer leagues in 40 years in Canada and counting. We won’t be fooled again with soccer.
We want CFL football in Ottawa.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Gil for CFL:
Your ‘facts’ are as inaccurate as your math, but I do love your description of the ‘tiny single purpose stadium’. First, “the Ottawa MLS stadium will seat up to 30,000 people”, which sure seems tiny in comparison to the mighty Lansdowne Live stadium with it’s “between 24,000 and 25,000 fans”. Both the above are direct quotes from their respective proposals. Secondly, the MLS stadium is not single purpose - it will serve Ottawa well as an outdoor concert venue, and anything else that can be done at Lansdowne.
The choice is CRYSTAL CLEAR - MLS in Kanata!
March 5th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
So you name me fifteen guys that most of canada never has heard of. These guys must proud canadian bench-warmers.
How many teams are in the top elite leagues in europe. Lets see you have england, france, netherlands, germany, italy, greece, scotland, belguim, romania denmark just too name a few countries. Now i just gave you ten countries, each with at least 10 teams thats 100 teams.
15 canadians for 100 teams —–soccer
approx 200 candians for 8 teams.—–football
wow, I now see that soccer is soooooooo huge! Fastest growing sport amongst 4 year olds
March 5th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Gil for CFL said “A stadium in the heart of the city with local transit that is easily accessible by ALL residents of Ottawa as well as Gatineau also offers many local services within walking distance as it has for decades.”
I’m sorry Gil, but Lansdowne is not easily accessible by any residents who live outside the Glebe. There is extremely limited parking planned on site, far less than at present, even though the Hunt Group is now suggesting that the City could pay for more underground parking.
Still the Lansdowne Live people have the answer. Their web site says “we think there’s great potential for park-and-ride links from Carleton University or Billings Bridge” and “don’t forget, there have been many major events at Lansdowne over the years and customers have always found a way to get here.”
Those decisive statements almost had me convinced, except for the fact that I have been to Lansdowne and waited and waited for a park-and-ride shuttle to Carleton at the same time that everybody else was waiting for the same buses. Unless you have rapid transit, buses are not an adequate way of moving 30,000 people. You need in the order of 8,000 parking spaces in addition to buses. Hmm, sounds just like Kanata, doesn’t it?
March 5th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Stephen - great list of famous Canadian soccer players!!!
I think you missed Owen Hargreaves from Calgary, injured at the moment, but plays for Manchester United, current champions of England, Europe and the World.
And just imagine the list you will be able to put together ten to twenty years from now if the kids in Ottawa and Toronto grow up watching MLS live!
March 6th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Hammer Time… you can’t name me one single NFL quality Canadian player. Go on wikipedia… I’m sure you will. Also, who are you going to wow us with in the CFL? Dave Sapunjis? Hammer Time there are far more known Canadian soccer players playing in top level soccer leagues then there are Canadian football players playing football. By yourflawed logic then the choice is clear.
Just had to say Dave, your points about the ‘tiny stadium’ were well made.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
“I’m sorry Gil, but Lansdowne is not easily accessible by any residents who live outside the Glebe. There is extremely limited parking planned on site…”
Parking and access are two different things. You can take several buses directly past Lansdowne Park or, depending on your willingness and ability to do so, to Billings or Carleton and walk from there. Getting to Lansdowne itself is easy.
I may be able to park in Kanata, but getting there is a chore (and getting out is even worse). The bus service is very limited (I was last there in October for a concert) and it’s not as though I have the option to walk.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Dave Harrison: How long have you lived in Ottawa? You obviously know NOTHING about Lansdowne and the immediate area. Lansdowne can accomodate up to 30,000 with additional seating in the endzone for large-scale events. The soccer stadium cannot increase because of its smaller capacity. In can only add so many temporary seats, and that wouldn’t even come up to the current capacity of Lansdowne. Event organizers demand larger capacity venues to attract larger attractions. The Rolling Stones for example played to over 40,000 at Lansdowne. The tiny little SSS could NEVER host such an event.
As for parking, look BEYOND the park. Those of us who actually know the area have NEVER had trouble with parking in the area; there are many choices.
Your Kanata option is sheer gridlock on the best of days. Ever been to an Ottawa Senators game? Even with the so-called “rapid-transit” option in addition to shuttles to and from the game it still takes forever to get out of the vicinity because there are very little avenues in and out of the stadium. Lansdowne, however, has many avenues in and out of the neighbourhood. Even with the Rolling Stones concert and the sheer numbers, I was out of there in minutes - no problems whatsoever.
Open your eyes Dave. You make no sense at all.
CFL for Ottawa!
March 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Interesting article.
http://www.potomacsoccerwire.com/news/460/5756
USL seems like a much better fit here. I asked before about the level of play and it seems to be similar.
March 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Gil and JF: quit beaten on a dead horse
Listen to yourself Gill, “The tiny little SSS could NEVER host such an event.”
Your argument has already been beaten soundly, give it up.
What is JF on? Since when have we started talking about a USL team? Are you suggesting a USL and an MLS team JF? Atleast you have come to the right side of this debate… there really is only one side… but who is talking about the USL? Apparently only you.
Hammer Time… Once again nobody knows what you are talking about. Congratulations you are the winner of the most pointless remarks ever posted on this blog.
March 6th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
hey stephen, owen wants nothing to do with canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats why he plays for england
Again there probable are thousands of soccer leagues across the world in which you can’t come up with 200 hundred canadian soccer players. Thats how crap soccer is in canada. What are we still ranked 60th in FIFA. What a joke! We can’t even beat countries that have a poplution the size of youth players plaing in canada
You have 40 teams that play professional FOOTBALL, in which 200 plus canadians play, there is a greater % of players playing FOOTBALL then there are soccer players playing at elite levels.
This clearly shows that 4 year olds play soccer and 15 16 17 18 19 20 year olds play football.
March 6th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Gil - “CFL for Ottawa”. Really? Is that really the best argument you can come up with to respond to Dave Harrison’s points? No matter how many times you say it, doesn’t make the Lansdowne Live proposal make any more sense.
And no matter how many times you say tiny little SSS doesn’t make it smaller than the new Lansdowne stadium.
March 6th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
“What is JF on? Since when have we started talking about a USL team? Are you suggesting a USL and an MLS team JF? Atleast you have come to the right side of this debate… there really is only one side… but who is talking about the USL? Apparently only you.”
There’s really only one side…that’s funny…What evidence is there again that people will actually leave the house to go to games? Oh, right. None.
I’ve never been anti-soccer, Stephen. Honestly, I would prefer that the city have both, because it’s good for the city. I would prefer that it be at Lansdowne, but if it ended up being in Kanata, well, it would certainly beat the alternative of NOT having football. But Mr Melnyk doesn’t want it that way and his stance forces me to be against his bid.
There were rumours early on that the Lansdowne Live group could be interested in a USL club and I recall one article (in the Citizen, I believe) to the effect that no one should be surprised by this. I didn’t pay much attention at the time because it wasn’t relevant then. But it does seem like a better idea for a variety of reason, and it doesn’t prevent a jump to MLS down the road.
I think Lansdowne Live is far better suited to bring soccer here. Now that the MLS decision is close, there’s still little to indicate that Ottawa will get a team. But if Ottawa isn’t chosen, I think you’ll hear about Lansdowne Live attempting to host soccer before long, either USL or MLS. If they plan on having stores and restaurants as part of their bids, there’s little reason to think they wouldn’t love to host the traffic of 20-some more events.
This is why I asked whether people “must” have MLS, or is it some form of pro soccer that that they want. All I got was one nonsensical response, but the reason I didn’t elaborate at first was that I didn’t want my reason for asking to influence the response.
I would support an attempt to get USL at Lansdowne Live, and for $750,000 a franchise, I see no reason why the Lansdowne group wouldn’t be all over that if people demand it. Cripes, they’re paying $7M plus startup cost for the CFL team. And it sounds to me like what you get for $750,000 isn’t a whole lot different than what you’d get for $40M.
March 6th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Hammer Time…. DID you read my post? If so, then why are you throwing Owen Hargreaves in my face? I think I know about Owen Hargreaves. W
March 6th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
* Why don’t you (Hammer Time) do us all a favor and think about what you are going to say before you actually do. If so your posts would actually be worth responding to.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Stephen Says: “Listen to yourself Gill, “The tiny little SSS could NEVER host such an event.”
Your argument has already been beaten soundly, give it up. ”
Stephen: You obviously have a problem understanding the difference between a 20,000 SSS capacity versus Lansdowne already hosting a 40,000 capacity Rolling Stones concert. Melnyk’s little soccer stadium could NEVER host an event as large as the Rolling Stones, thus that is only one reason (out of MANY) why we need Lansdowne/Frank Clair stadium.
And to MLS: the “CFL for Ottawa” isn’t an argument, it’s the wish of the majority of Ottawans.
So, I’ll say it again:
CFL for Ottawa!
March 7th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
After reading through both proposals, coupled with the current and projected makeup of Ottawa, as well as the past history of both sports in Canada, I must admit that the Hunt Group’s proposal comes out on top with flying colours. The central core needs something to attract larger scale events as has been alluded to. This debate should not be about soccer vs football. A multi-purpose stadium is what we need for Ottawa. I agree with the Lansdowne Live proposal. Mr Mayor, please rebuild Lansdowne and give us a spectacular Frank Clair stadium that we can all be proud of.
March 7th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Ok I’m sorry but CFL had its chance in Ottawa and NOBODY followed it! please, lets get a refreshment around here, like we’re the capitol of the 2nd LARGEST country int he world and all we have right now is hockey!? And this would stimulate our economy so much, just think about it, visiting teams need a hotel, transport, food and beverage, all this accommodations. Just face it, CFL is dead for Ottawa.
March 7th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
“Ok I’m sorry but CFL had its chance in Ottawa and NOBODY followed it!”
And yet at its worst attendance figures were ten times the best that a local soccer team has ever drawn at its best.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
I agree with the majority of (rational) posters here. North America is not ready for soccer just yet. Canada (and Ottawa) has shown its propensity for football. I side with the Lansdowne Live plan and CFL football for Ottawa.
March 8th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Gil,
Stop trying to pass off your opinions as facts, or be prepared to back them up with sources. CFL is NOT the wish of the majority of Ottawans. Quite the reverse. 5 successive poles have shown soccer has greater support (2 x CFRA, 2 x Ottawa Sun and EKOS).
March 8th, 2009 at 10:56 am
The worst point being made on this blog is CFL fans comparing local soccer league teams with CFL football. This is a silly attempt at undermining support for an MLS bid. There has never been a top quality soccer team in Ottawa.
March 8th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
it doesn’t matter who i’m talking too stef. both you and harrison just like too manipulate true facts that pro CFL people bring to the table.
you should stick to the USL-1 it’s cheaper by the dozen.
March 8th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Dave Harrison: Back up your own figures; not fluff from some daily poll whose results were run up by non-Ottawans. I have already referenced mine - the Ottawa Citizen. Those polls you reference were already shown to have been unduly influenced by the Melnyk group. Those ‘polls’ are unscientific and open to manipulation. They hold no credence whatsoever. For instance, I could point to a poll done by the Ottawa Sun that favoured the entire Lansdowne bid over the Kanata bid, but even I know that those numbers can’t be relied on from an Ottawa Sun poll.
March 8th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I finally found it, ironically in an article about lower viewership for the Grey Cup (outside of Quebec) in 2008 than in the previous year.
“CBC’s telecast of the MLS Cup on Sunday, New York Red Bulls-Columbus Crew, drew 65,000 viewers. The Boston Celtics-Toronto Raptors game that preceded the soccer championship on CBC was watched by 153,000.”
And that “low” Grey Cup number…
“Taken together, the TSN-RDS audience, the total Canadian viewership, was 3.615 million, slightly more than the combined CBC-RDS audience of 3.539 million in 2007.”
If the moderators will allow a link, here it is:
http://tinyurl.com/ad58ht
Comparatively, for the regular season the CFL draws over 300,000 viewers.
“This year’s season-to-date average audience for CFL games is 362,000 viewers, compared to 326,000 last year after the first four weeks. This marks the strongest start ever for the CFL after the first 16 games of the season.” (July 28th, ‘08)
And the Labour day games…
“Together, TSN’s highly-anticipated coverage of both Labour Day Classic games drew a combined average audience of 646,000 viewers, marking a 20% increase over last year’s coverage of both match-ups (CBC, 539,000).” (Sept 3rd, ‘08)
Both articles can be found by searching CFL on channelcanada.com.
How does MLS do? An oregonlive.com article yesterday stated that it had an average viewership of 253,000. So it can not match CFL numbers in a country with ten times the population.
An article I read over the weekend pointed out that of the CFL’s viewership number, between 40,000 and 50,000 is from the Ottawa area despite not currently having a team.
March 8th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
hey anyone hear david “sellout” beckham is trying to buy his way back to europe mustve realized the MLS is a Joke league
March 9th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Hammer Time:
You said that MLS fans have manipulated “true facts that pro CFL people bring to the table” In the interests of a fair discussion, please list any facts that you claim have been manipulated.
March 9th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Jim,
I don’t think a CFL fan has any right to be talking about joke leagues…
Beckham needs to be playing in Europe in ordered to be considered for the England team for the Word Cup. The English manager told him that explicitly. He will also be returning to MLS once the Italian season is over.
The English press are also reporting today that Beckham is considering buying his own MLS team when he retires.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2305310.ece
March 9th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Mr Harrison: Gil is correct. There have been numerous polls taken over the course of the year that support both the CFL and soccer bids. As a matter of fact, there is one recent poll that places a multipurpose stadium first, football stadium second, no stadium at all third and soccer stadium dead last. Now, the football fans could use this as ammunition against the Melnyk bid, but we know full well that the results cannot be relied upon, nor are they definitive, much as the SUN and EKOS polls cannot be relied upon for various reasons. I think the best thing would be to have a single stadium at Lansdowne house both the Ottawa Rough Riders and a potential soccer team in order to maximize revenues while minimizing the costs.
March 9th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Terry Borland: please justify your comment “North America is not ready for soccer just yet” and if this is the case, please explain why the U-19 World Cup drew such large attendances in Ottawa, why there is a 10,000 person waiting list for Toronto FC season tickets and why there were over 55,000 at the Montreal Impact game a couple of weeks ago.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
When did this become a discussion on the future of David Beckham? His future has aboslutely no bearing on the future of soccer in Ottawa.
Terry please define rational. If you version of rational includes the majority of CFL fans such as Gil and Hammer Time… then your version of rational is pretty twisted.
Soccer has proven not to work in Canada? You have absolutely no idea. There has only ever been one MLS team in Canada… it has been a smash hit. The Montreal Impact of the USL hosted a crowd of over 55,000 to watch a match on Feb. 25th. Montreal leads attendance in the league. Vancouver Whitecaps are planning on building a new and larger soccer stadium and are also bidding for an MLS team. Professional soccer has proven to be more then succesful in Canada.
International soccer has also proven to be a successful ticket in Canada. Canada set the record for the largest ever attendance for the mens U-20 World Cup. Canada also did a terrific job at hosting the 2002 womens u-19 tournament.
In terms of the interest in playing soccer. Soccer is the most popular sport to play across Canada.
Do you have any more rational comments Terry about how soccer has proven NOT to work in North America? I guess not, because that is NOT a very rational argument is it?
CFL fans say what you want… fight fact with fiction… carry on… the truth is, that Ottawa would be far better off with an MLS team than would it be with yet another CFL team.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Gil for CFL Says:
“Those polls you reference were already shown to have been unduly influenced by the Melnyk group. Those ‘polls’ are unscientific and open to manipulation. ”
Please stop posting unsubstantiated statements as facts. Exactly how were these polls unduly influenced by the Melnyk group? And don’t say that they told their registered supporters about them, because the poll addresses were also circulated on CFL message boards. The idea of polls like that is that supporters pass them on. In that way, the larger supporters group usually wins them.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
MLS dude. read fully, read out-loud too yourself, even in front of the mirror all of these post. check them carefully and then watch as the mirror shatters and and your soccer pipe dream goes down with it.
The fact is everybody that is pro cfl has brought alot of numbers too this discussion, be it attendence or t.v. ratings, yet ever pro soccer guy still says soccer is the most popular sport in the world. Hello wall we are talking about canada not the world. The t.v ratings and attendence figures show without a doubt that the cfl is greater in canada then soccer no mmatter how many 4 year old play the game.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:46 am
Soccer in ottawa would be smart because we already have lots of CFL football teams. We do however, only have Toronto FC for a soccer team. Having an Ottawa soccer team would inspire young kids into playing this sport. It would also give the citizens of Ottawa a chance to get close to a soccer game. The last chance we all had that was at the U20 world cup. The turnout for that was amazing so if they get an Ottawa club, imagine how many people would be interested to go see the games. Money would be flowing in.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
MLS beats CFL Says: “The idea of polls like that is that supporters pass them on. In that way, the larger supporters group usually wins them.”
When the same person votes over and over and over again (as the soccer group did) the poll results are meaningless as has been mentioned before, so don’t try playing that game with me. You’re not fooling anyone. Even the CFL fans disregard the polls that they themselves have won. A local Virgin 106.9 radio ‘poll’ completely destroyed MLS, but we place no reliance on the results at all. If reliance on inaccurate poll results is all you MLS people rely on then you’re in worse shape than I had originally thought.
The FACTUAL numbers talk. There’s more viewership and attendance on a sustained level for CFL than MLS could ever hope for.
CFL for Ottawa!
March 10th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Stephen Says: Do you have any more rational comments Terry about how soccer has proven NOT to work in North America? I guess not, because that is NOT a very rational argument is it?
Stephen, all you point to are several one-off events. I can do that with CFL as well - Grey Cup in Montreal attracted more than 66,000 fans. The key here is SUSTAINED patronage from its fans. Soccer has shown that it CANNOT support teams in Canada on a SUSTAINED level. You want proof? 5 failed soccer LEAGUES in Canada in 40 years.
Proof that CFL is a SUSTAINABLE product? Nearly 100 years in operation in Canada.
March 10th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Like I’ve said before - let’s shoot for the stars - build at Lansdowne and get both teams.
The pro-soccer people make me laugh. You’re always comparing what Toronto FC is doing. Toronto is seven times bigger than Ottawa. Second - what the rest of the world does is not what we like and do. Third - if you keep digging up the Ottawa Renegades and their failure - why don’t you keep bringing up the 5 Canadian teams that played in the NASL? Or for that matter the many semi-pro teams and leagues that have come and went.
Instead of sounding off about how much you love soccer and would buy season tickets….etc. Open up Google, or what ever, and do searches for MSL attendance, MSL TV Ratings, and MSL health. Then do the same for the CFL.
Look for just the facts….not the passion. Avoid CFL.ca and MSL.net. And the picture is not the greatest. When you have a US market of 300 million pulling in 250,000 viewers for MSL matches and 325,000 viewers of CFL games from a 35 million market. Those figures don’t lie.
I follow the finacial flow of many of the leagues - and the MSL growth looks stalled. I hope not - I’d like to see both leagues call Ottawa home. That way if we do loose one franchise - the other will carry on.
March 10th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
And to add - 55,000 is great. But the average attendance for the Impact is 12,696.
Lets think this out - Montreal is how many times bigger than Ottawa?
The price of those tickets (I’m guessing) is cheaper than that of what the MSL would be.
If I remember - the CFL average attendance is just under 30,000 per game. Again I’m guessing (I’ll have to dig for this) that those CFL tickets were much more than Impact tickets.
And those are facts…..not just passion.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Hey “MSL beats the CFL” guy.
Spend some time and money on an ATLAS.
Find out what countries comprise of North America. You know, the “North America” that you feel is lining up for MSL franchises.
Did you notice that all your points were of Canadian cities?
Great for Canadian soccer - but it’s not growing at a professional level in the US the way it is sold by MSL fans. The US is going to dictate the fate of the MSL and not Canada. Just the size of markets.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Terry your proof is a laugh! You are talking about two very different things. There has never been a league of soccer in Ottawa at the level of the MLS and it has been a success in Canada. Furthermore, soccer has never been as popular in Canada as it is now. The leagues you talk about were a far different class of soccer at a far different time in Canada’s interest and in soccer.
Funny you are concerned about sustained interest in soccer, when the CFL has been in Ottawa twice and has failed twice. The CFL is the still the same CFL it was in the ’90s when the Roughriders failed and it is still the same CFL it was when the Renegades failed.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Like Eugene say’s: THE MLS WILL HAPPEN. Like it or not, you pro- CFLers are fighting a losing battle.
OLE OLE OLE
March 11th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Gil for CFL says “There’s more viewership and attendance on a sustained level for CFL than MLS could ever hope for. ”
You obviously don’t understand what facts are.
Kel Bracken Says: “Did you notice that all your points were of Canadian cities”
Did you notice we were in Canada??
Kel Bracken also says: “build at Lansdowne and get both teams.”
Unfortunately this is not a possibility. No-one is going to pay for an MLS franchise at Lansdowne and MLS are not going to award on in Ottawa with a SSS.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Give it up Gil:
“When the same person votes over and over and over again (as the soccer group did) the poll results are meaningless”
I ask again, where is your proof?? Why is it that polls that go against you are obviously fixed??
March 11th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
“If I remember - the CFL average attendance is just under 30,000 per game.”
You remember correctly. The Ottawa Sun recently did a recap of both bids and the state of each league. The CFL average attendance was 28,914, the MSL average was 16,460.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I see that the soccer people have fallen off the map.
Probable landed and are talkin on some euro site about how great soccer is in North America.
March 11th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Stephen: If you can’t understand the failure of 5 soccer leagues in Canada then you’re the one who can’t face facts. Soccer is no different today than it was in the past in Canada. It’s a boring game, followed by small attendance numbers. Average attendance for CFL and MLS have already been posted. Hopefully you can understand those numbers. If you can’t then that’s your problem. Soccer is a bad bet. CFL football is where we should be going with the ability to accommodate soccer. Deal with it.
March 11th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
MLS: You conveniently left out the fact that I completely disregard the polls that favour the CFL as well. It’s a well known fact that the polls were rung up. Soccer fans have joked about it on radio call-in shows when they were being conducted. It’s no revelation to someone who actually understands how these things work.
What doesn’t lie are the published facts regarding game attendance by independent sources. JF has posted these hard facts above. Too bad the MLS group couldn’t conduct polls on what attendance there is at MLS games; you guys would come out with flying colours.
March 11th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
The CFL average attendance better be a little higher then the MLS or even the NHL and NBA. They only play 9 home games a year! If they did not they would be out of business fast. Are you trying to suggest that the CFL is more succesful then the NHL and the NBA? CFL would bring in far less finances then the MLS would, but even more it would be far less valuable and beneficial to our sporting future.
March 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
“Stephen says: The CFL is the still the same CFL it was in the ’90s when the Roughriders failed”
Yeah, Saskatchewan wasn’t too good in the 1990s, but what has that got to do with Ottawa?
March 19th, 2009 at 6:27 am
wow vancouver got the team, what happened to the team coming to ottawa for sure.. if a stadium was built?
March 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am
where is the soccer people and there flare. Oh wait they must be diving over there post they have here, after they just awarded vancouver and portland teams. Guys it actually hurts when you dive on pavement and cement.
Leave the acting and playing in europe where it belongs, and let our 4 year olds play the game
March 19th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Now that the MLS has chosen Vancouver and Portland lets focus on Lansdown Park and the CFL. The time line is 6 months or Ottawa will lose the CFL also !!
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:53 pm
For those of you who are fond of polls. this one is from CTV.
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Without a guaranteed soccer franchise, should the city still consider a stadium in Kanata?
Yes (25 %) 124
No (75 %) 376
March 24th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
I cannot see any such poll on the CTV Ottawa website so maybe this is a hoax poll. In any case the question is ridiculous. Obviously the MLS is never going to grant or guarantee an MLS soccer franchise to any group unless they have been able to demonstrate that they have an agreement for the stadium in which their MLS team is going to play!
MLS can be expected to grant a conditional MLS franchise to a group that has demonstrated that it has a suitable stadium plan, conditional on the stadium being ready for the agreed soccer season e.g. 2012. Ottawa Citizen item today confirms that MLS Commissioner Don Garber has emailed the mayor to confirm that Ottawa is under consideration for an expansion team.
March 25th, 2009 at 11:15 am
That poll does not address the question that is being debated on this blog. The question is whether Ottawa should get an MLS team, a CFL team or both. What has to happen before we decide upon stadiums is whether or not City council decides to go with the MLS or the CFL. Hopefully they do the correct thing and choose the MLS option.
March 27th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Alan, that was a couple of days ago so the poll has now changed. Go to the CTV website. Look at the current poll. Click “view results”. It will show the previous polls. The one I refer to is #4 on the list as I write this.
And the poll is very much relevent for the simple fact that people are saying that if MLS will not grant us a team, we should not build a stadium for it. That only makes sense. It would be foolish to build a stadium in Kanata based on the hope that MLs will come some day. MLS has made no firm commitment to Ottawa.
Yeah, Garber has said all kinds of sweet things about Ottawa, but the problem is that he can say anything about anyone when he’s not committed to backing it up.
March 28th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
I found the CTV Ottawa poll now, but as I said the question makes no sense. It indicates that CTV Ottawa doesn’t understand how the MLS expansion franchise process works, and surprises me greatly. Take the recent Vancouver and Portland examples:-
The group requesting a new MLS franchise has to be able to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the MLS that they either have an agreement to play MLS soccer at an existing suitable stadium, or that they have plans, financing and approvals from local government etc for a stadium to be built. If MLS decides to accept the proposal, they announce the winning franchisee and the franchisee hands over the MLS franchise fee, reported to be $35-40M. The franchisee then has a conditional MLS franchise for a future season, conditional on whatever the MLS specifies including of course that they have a stadium ready by the designated season.
So there is no possibility of a (guaranteed) conditional MLS franchise until it can be demonstrated to MLS that the requesting group has plans and approvals for a stadium. The City of Ottawa cannot wait for a guaranteed MLS franchise before deciding on a Kanata stadium, because MLS would never grant a conditional franchise without a firm stadium plan.
The Hunt Group already has a conditional CFL franchise because they plan to use Lansdowne Park.
Also I don’t understand Steve’s point: The City cannot decide to go with either MLS or CFL and then decide on stadiums, since the Melnyk group is only proposing an Ottawa MLS franchise to be located at a Kanata stadium. If they decide to go with MLS then choose Lansdowne Park or another location, I guess we would end up with nothing!
There is to my mind a good possibility for the City of Ottawa to decide to go with both MLS and CFL without a major cost to the City:-
My suggestion would be for the City to let the CFL conditional franchise go ahead at Lansdowne Park as it is now with no development or renovation., and also agree to the Melnyk group’s Kanata stadium plan, conditional on being granted an MLS franchise for 2012 (or maybe 2013). If they do get an MLS franchise then after several years of soccer at Kanata, and football at Lansdowne, if the CFL franchise is healthy and well supported, there could be a choice of either the Lansdowne stadium being renovated or redeveloped, or if both parties agreed, perhaps the CFL team would decide to move to play their games also at the Kanata stadium. In this case the Lansdowne Park stadium (which is now around forty years old and not in great shape) and surrounding area could then be completely redeveloped without a stadium.
This could be accommodated by ensuring that a Kanata MLS soccer stadium is designed so that CFL football could also be played there.
In this way both groups would have the opportunity of accepting Ottawa franchises if offered, bringing their plans to fruition and demonstrating that their clubs are successful and well-supported.
March 30th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
why are you debating still. good bye soccer not going too happen.
April 1st, 2009 at 11:53 am
You’re right, Allan, but here’s the thing; what if you make yourself soccer ready…and soccer never comes? You’ve then committed to building a stadium with no set tenant, something we already have two of now that baseball won’t be here in 2009. It would be a ridiculously chancy move.
This is part of the reason Lansdowne Live is better. It has a confirmed tenant scheduled to play there AND can house soccer as well (Melnyk said he could house football, but this was after months of dumping on it, so you’ll excuse me if I’m not entirely convinced about his intentions). If the city were to choose the Lansdowne Live proposal, it could refurbish only one stadium and not risk having yet another in Kanata that is potentially useless.
The mention earlier today in the Citizen that the baseball stadium could be demolished and the land sold for funds that would be then applied to stadium construction makes sense. You would then have one multi-use stadium in a central location rather than three, at best only one of which would be used on a regular basis, at worst none of which would be used regularly.
The other thing is that the city would still own Frank Clair Stadium under Lansdowne Live, but Melnyk would own the Kanata one. So “Ottawa” would still not have a stadium of its own (that it controls) if they choose Melnyk’s plan because the two it does have are not suitable for most events anymore.
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Just to reply to some of the points in this one:-
You’re right, Allan, but here’s the thing; what if you make yourself soccer ready…and soccer never comes? You’ve then committed to building a stadium with no set tenant, something we already have two of now that baseball won’t be here in 2009. It would be a ridiculously chancy move.
>>>>>I don’t think you understand how MLS franchise approval would work or the decisions available to the City. The City could decide to accept the Melnyk group’s Kanata stadium proposal, agree to conditionally sell the land they own to the Melnyk group and grant planning permissions etc. Of course this would be conditional on MLS granting the Melnyk group an Ottawa MLS conditional franchise for e.g. 2012, with conditions such as a stadium must be built to be ready for the start of the 2012 season. The Melnyk group would then accept the MLS franchise offer and hand over the MLS franchise fee. Only after that would any stadium constructiion be able to start. The City could specify a time limit in which the Melnyk group must have a MLS franchise agreement. During this time the City should figure out what to do with Lansdowne Park - Frank Clair stadium and Civic Centre.
Nothing would be “chancy” at all in this.
This is part of the reason Lansdowne Live is better. It has a confirmed tenant scheduled to play there AND can house soccer as well (Melnyk said he could house football, but this was after months of dumping on it, so you’ll excuse me if I’m not entirely convinced about his intentions). If the city were to choose the Lansdowne Live proposal, it could refurbish only one stadium and not risk having yet another in Kanata that is potentially useless.
>>>>>Going on the news reports yesterday the existing Frank Clair stadium is in much worse shape than was thought. There will be a report to be made public on Monday. The impression is that structural repairs will be either much more expensive than expected or that the stadium is now considered to be unsafe and needs to be demolished. We’ll have to wait until next Monday to know exactly the situation.
My previous suggestion of a way to accept both groups proposals now would not be feasible if the existing Lansdowne stadium can no longer be used for CFL (or anything else). It would also mean that the Lansdowne Live proposal would not enable a CFL team to play until the stadium is either structurally renovated (if it’s feasible), or demolished and rebuilt. The cost of demolition and rebuilding may well be significantly higher than building a new stadium in Kanata, particularly as the Melnyk group’s proposal does not require much funding by the City. We’ll have to wait until Monday for the comparable cost estimates to be known.
The mention earlier today in the Citizen that the baseball stadium could be demolished and the land sold for funds that would be then applied to stadium construction makes sense. You would then have one multi-use stadium in a central location rather than three, at best only one of which would be used on a regular basis, at worst none of which would be used regularly.
>>>>ok so demolish the baseball stadium to help pay to demolish the Lansdowne stadium?
The other thing is that the city would still own Frank Clair Stadium under Lansdowne Live, but Melnyk would own the Kanata one. So “Ottawa” would still not have a stadium of its own (that it controls) if they choose Melnyk’s plan because the two it does have are not suitable for most events anymore.
>>>>>I think the way the City-owned baseball stadium has been allowed to fall into disuse and the neglect of Lansdowne Park stadium over many years goes to show that the City of Ottawa should not be in the business of owning and operating a major sports stadium. I’d like to see the City decide very quickly to go along with the Melnyk MLS stadium proposal and also require the stadium to be designed to enable CFL football to be played there as well for a possible CFL franchise in the future. All conditional of course on winning na MLS soccer franchise for 2012 or 2013.
April 5th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Other then the new teams that came into the league and tfc. The average attendence for the remaining mls teams so far is around 11500 with a big whopping 6000 at a KC game.
cue the violin “bye bye MLS”
April 9th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Hello folks,
Ottawa: a beautiful city, and Canada’s capitol city. The CFL is a Canadian League, with Canadian history and a true nationwide pride. The Grey Cup, offered by one of Canada’s Governor Generals has been won by the Ottawa Roughrides nine times. The CFL belongs to Ottawa, it has already been awarded the franchise and they will host the grey cup in 2014.
The MLS is an American league, with American teams and traditions, american culture and american players. Why in the world would Ottawa be so important in an American League. If those of you who say soccer is a growing sport in the world and Ottawa should have a team, why not consider creating a Canadian Soccer League. Why is it we always have to join American leagues for our sports franchises. CFL is truly Canadian and Ottawa belongs there, as it did for many years, and the league entrance fee has already been paid for the new Ottawa franchise.
Is Ottawa Canadian or American? I am already ashamed of Toronto and Vancouver for thinking they are Americans and could play in an Amercian league. How disgraceful. Ottawa is a CFL franchise and already has investors guarantiing financial support for Landsdowne Park and everything is secured that the Ottawa Renegades will be a success. The current bids for MLS in 2011 are already done, the next round would be for 2012. Why support Melnek’s proposal and wait for something that is not even for certain going to be realised, when Ottawa is ready to go for 2010, all it needs is the aproval from the City. Ottawa and Ottawaians what are you? Canadians or Americans?
April 9th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Bring back the CFL to Ottawa. Already have a great team of owners lined up just need the council to approve the stadium. Share it with the University of Ottawa and instantly it helps everyone!!!!
April 15th, 2009 at 6:47 am
Hey, Stephen! Are you still around? Here’s a quote from today’s Sun:
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“We have had an interest in pro soccer being part of Lansdowne Live since the beginning,” said Ottawa 67’s owner Jeff Hunt, who is fronting the Lansdowne Live bid, which has secured a conditional CFL franchise. “It sounds like the USL is on a par with the calibre of the MLS and if things don’t work out in Kanata, it might be worth looking into.
===
Further evidence that you’ve been swimming against the current since day one. Like I said before, a vote for Lansdowne Live not is not a vote against soccer.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:03 am
Landsdowne Live is a vote against all sense. Have you not been following the situation at all? Lansdowne is a write off. So much for the cheaper alternative.
Don’t worry, Fournier, when the CFL does not come, you can always travel to Toronto or Montreal to get your football fix.
April 18th, 2009 at 9:07 am
If it were to all crumble, I would continue doing what I’ve been doing for years; supporting the amateur levels.
I would suggest you do the same. It makes for a far more convincing argument for support for a pro team than pointing out how many toddlers are enrolled. Based on the numbers out there, you should have plenty of leg room, so bring a friend.