Lansdowne needs fixing — that much is clear
The status of Frank Clair Stadium is clear; the south side stands are condemned and the north side stands have problems too. Oh and yes, the Civic Centre leaks as well.
The facility serves as home to the successful Ottawa 67’s (who have a lease until 2012) and is the only trade show space in Ottawa. Also, the Farmer’s Market, and to a lesser extent the Ottawa Exhibition, contribute to the 1.5 million people who visit Lansdowne Park every year.
Even though Lansdowne is broken, it is still serving important duties for the citizens of Ottawa. It is also a big part of our City’s heritage.
Today we have a broken yet commercially useful Lansdowne Park and a consensus that the Park needs rejuvenation. Just to keep it functioning as it is now will cost taxpayers approximately $25 million over the next 10 years. Unfortunately this is what happens when you ignore something for the last 20 years.
Now it’s time to fix it.
Some unsolicited solutions to the Lansdowne problem have come from the private sector and have been received and reviewed by the City. One of these proposals (Lansdowne Live) addresses fixing up Frank Clair Stadium and bringing the CFL back to Ottawa and the other recommends building a City owned stadium in Kanata as a home to a professional soccer team.
Both of these proposals would cost taxpayers in excess of $100 million. In addition, both of these proposals would ultimately fix Lansdowne Park. Moreover, both projects would result in economic activity during this downturn and fix an eyesore in the middle of our City. Over the next three weeks, City Council will make some important choices for the future of Lansdowne Park. There will not be a right or wrong answer, but there will many options. The worst outcome is to do nothing – that in my opinion is not an option.
To a certain extent, these unsolicited proposals are competing with each other. And when choosing between competing options in business, I have often measured them against questions relating to values. The four values and questions that have helped me make these types of choices are 1) Do we have all the facts? 2) Is this the best choice for the long term? 3) Will the solution chosen provide the most value added? and 4) Is it the most economically prudent choice?
These are the questions I will be asking over the next three weeks. Please keep us informed as to your views on this subject.
April 5th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Redevelop Lansdowne with a multi-purpose stadium: soccer, CFL, bubbled in the winter and rink (67’s). We don’t want another stadium in the middle of nowhere (Kanata) with only driving and limited bus access to the stadium.
April 5th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
I fail to see how the Kanata proposal would fix Lansdowne Park. If the stadium is built in Kanata, the money will be spent, and the city will still be faced with having to take action on Lansdowne. As you correctly pointed out, the bills have now come due for 20 years of neglect. The status quo is not an option, nor is mowing down facilities that host 1.2 million visits per year.
Council also needs to consider successful stadium and urban renewal projects around North America over the last twenty years. Where have they taken place? All of them have occured in city centres. Urban planners are unanimous in that densification, and the renewal of downtown cores, are the keys to successful cities.
I have no opposition to having Mr. Melnyk build a stadium in Kanata, and in building up the area around Scotiabank Place. I would, however, oppose the notion of putting taxpayer money towards that effort, while ignoring the obvious need to take action at Lansdowne. The city’s own process has already identified a stadium as an important component to Lansdowne, and 79% of Ottawa residents clearly stated in an Ipsos-Reid poll that they prefer a downtown stadium location to a suburban one. Combine all of this with the fact that some of the most respected business people in Ottawa are willing to put over $100 million in private money into Lansdowne, and the Lansdowne Live proposal turns into the hands-down winner.
It is long since time that the City stopped alternately debating and ignoring Lansdowne, and started taking action on it. This Council has a golden opportunity to be remembered as the one who finally gave the city an asset of which to be proud. Show some leadership, and get it done.
April 6th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Ross
Kanata is not the middle of no where.200,000 people live within a 10 minute drive of the sbp.
Dennis
The would support no tax for 10 nyears on the stadium in kanata.
April 6th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Fix Lansdowne - Save what you can from Frank Clair and Civic Center with a rebuilt Football stadium and fixed up Hockey Arena. Preserve the assets and improve the overall of Lansdowne.
Lansdowne Live is of much more value to this city in fixing a neglected jewel. A soccer stadium in a snow field in Kanata does not address what this city wants and needs.
April 6th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Reading a recent interview with one of the men involved in Lansdowne Live, I remain impressed at the flexibility included in their bid.
I have seen it referred to as an indication that they don’t realy know what they want, but I believe it’s more accurate to say that they don’t fully know yet what the city and its citizens want.
Apparently, very few of the components are set in stone. If the city does not want the aquarium, then perhaps that space (the Aberdeen) can be left available for the trade shows and the farmer’s market. If no one has a use for an ultimate frisbee field, perhaps that can be converted to more “traditional” park space to accomodate those that found that was lacking in the original proposal.
It would seem to me then that the cost associated with the final vision would also be variable. Who knows what the aquarium would cost, but if the city would rather not pay for it, then the “more than $90M” that’s been quoted in articles earlier today could be significantly less.
I like a lot of what Lansdowne Live has to offer and hope that their presentation today makes it an appealing option. I personally find very little in the Kanata bid to get excited about, particularly in that there is no guarantee that a tenant would be found for the stadium there any time soon (and perhaps ever, for all we know). I am also among those who find the location to be extremely inconvenient to the point that I would generally avoid it.
April 6th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Last week Winnipeg announced they have put together a deal to build a 30,000 seat, $130 million , stadium. It will be used by the Blue Bombers and the University of Manitoba , next to which it will stand.
First the PEG takes aim at out world longest skating rink title and now will have bragging rights concerning a stadium.The shame! The shame!
Seriously it begs the question of how the Peg which is a smaller city than the NCR , and less affluent, based on average incomes, can do this without much angst, and we seem to dither for years trying to figure out what to do.
It will be hard to SWAGGER, while watching the Bombers and Bisons on TV playing in a modern state of the art stadium, while our stadiums crumble to dust or are simply torn down and forgotten.
April 6th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Jf
The only thing thata re set ins tone is the stadium and arena.Even with that people are aginst it.
April 6th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Good comments!
Ross– building a multi-purpose stadium makes sense if we are going to build one at all.
Dennis- Building in Kanata would open options for Lansdowne by eliminating the need for a stadium at Lansdowne.
Jane– seems that is the sentiment of many on Council .
JF- Good observations.
Thanks for taking part in the debate. Much more to come over the next two weeks.
April 6th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
I am not sure how Mr O’Brien can make the leap of logic that says building a soccer specific stadium on the furthest reaches of town solves the Landsdowne park problem??? Or how that specific enterprise serves the majority of people in this city! You would still be left with a facility at Landsdowne that needs to be fixed, only now you have no money to do it with and no private funding to help defer the costs.
Ultimatly there may be better sites within the downtown core to build a stadium but the city can not do it alone and there isn’t anyone offering to help with the costs. We have a proposal that will fix the Landsdowne site, provide for a multi-use stadium in the core of the city in an historic location and will be partialy funded by the private sector. How can we not take this seriously and sit down and negotiate with this group.
April 7th, 2009 at 6:29 am
Peter
You do know 400,000 people live in the west end of ottawa.
April 7th, 2009 at 6:33 am
I really think these stadium proposals should be dropped and forgotten. As someone mentioned, going out to football games is a thing of the past. I used to be a season ticket holder and wouln’t go anymore myself. Why don’t we develop other aspects of our city, create a vibrant arts/crafts village with greenscape at Landsdowne. This would draw tourists year round and become a focal point for the city. The Landsdowne park area is a jewel and it hurts to see it overwhelmed with a stadium just to satisfy some nostalgic sports fans. Time to move on with ideas that satisfy the general population , not just football and soccer fans.
As I mentioned, bring football back there and I wouldn’t even bother going to any games.
It’s pure nostalgia on the part of some sports fans to see a resurgence in this.
April 7th, 2009 at 7:21 am
I am ashamed of my city council in this stadium issue. 20 years of doing nothing for Lansdowne and the councillors continue to endlessly bicker with no progress. There are real developers with strong local background involved with the Lansdowne Live proposal. Why must councillors align an endless string of roadblock to prevent progress - while a neglected part of our heritage continues to fall apart. Is it to justify their pay-cheques?
This is extremely frustrated to see nothing done and such a negative attitude toward local people who want to give Ottawa something to be proud of.
I am all for Lansdowne Live I think the result will do incredible good for the collective pride of this region with true economic benefits for all involved - yes that includes the city.
Larry - why is this council so negative and so against actually getting something done? We are going to fritter away this golden opportunity to do something valuable with such an incredible asset - all because of short-sighted councillors. Progress should be the council’s goal but it is clearly not.
Frustrated
April 7th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Mike,
The Winnipeg stadium is being financed primarily by the Asper family with help from the federal and provincial governments. In return for funding, the Asper family got development rights for City owned land. We are trying to get the same kind of deal here in Ottawa but the model is not quite right -YET.
Peter, you are right.
I was just suggesting that you could develop Lansdowne without the need of a stadium. The problem still remains that we need a home for the Ottawa 67`s and a place for trade shows. You are correct that it would not be the most cost effective way to solve the Lansdowne problem. Thanks for you input.
April 7th, 2009 at 8:34 am
What some don’t know the the ottawa 67s have been one of the most successful team attendance wise in the chl.They are the toronto maple leafs of the chl in terms of support and on ice performence.To lose this team would be the worst possible thing to happen.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Mayor, I don’t want to be one of those folks who monopolizes a comments section, but I will just add this as a final word:
Your warm words for the notion of rejuvenating Lansdowne in general, and your support for the Winnipeg model in particular, is heartening. In addition, we know that we have a group similar to the Aspers in the form of the Shenkman, Greenberg, Ruddy and Hunt group. What is missing right now is LEADERSHIP. We need strong leadership at the civic level to step up and make a commitment to working with the Lansdowne Live group and the senior levels of government to get the model right. That leadership can, and should, come from you.
You said when you ran for Mayor that you wanted to help Ottawa gets its swagger — here is a perfect opportunity to do just that. Please don’t wait for two weeks while Council chases its own tail yet again. Use your office and your leadership skills to help make this project happen on behalf of the city. The time for studies has ended, and the time for action has come.
April 7th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Dennis I could not agree more.
Lansdowne Live has stated they will cover cost overruns. The plan for the long term lease leaves the city in a better situation than it is now - wasting 3 million a year to watch Lansdowne fall apart - that is a disgrace.
Get to rebuilding Lansdowne for what it has always been a location for the people of Ottawa to congregate for sports and activities.
Do not waste the opportunity that Lansdowne Live represents - work with these people - stop the negative speak in council - start working for a solution. Get some results.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Just because Landsdowne was a stadium and parking lot does not mean it should stay that way. This is INCREDIBLY VALUABLE land. Sell it all. Pocket the cash. Reduce my taxes. Tear down everything. Build parks, houses, lofts appts, retail. Make it part of the Glebe. WE DO NOT NEED A STADIUM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY. The reburbished Congress Centre can handle the conventions. Scotiabank can handle everything else. If you want a bigger rink and/or soccer/football stadium to handle Jr hockey and MLS/CFL then build expand something at Carleton U. Plenty of parking lots there.
April 7th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
1)As it is now the scotia bank is packed with events with concerts and sports events.There is no way they could handle all the dates at the civic centre it would not be possible.
2)It would really would not be possible to turn the ravnes rink into a ohl arena.Cut in away you can a new 10,000 seat arena has to be built.
April 7th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
fishymcdonk said:
“Sell it all. Pocket the cash. Reduce my taxes.”
With that kind of thinking i’m starting to think we deserve the position this city is in.
Where is the leadership? Where is the plan?
This city has lost the idea of community. There is no concept of the value; in concerts, activities and events that draw thousands of people to a picturesque location, in sporting teams like the 67’s and once upon a time Rough Riders and what they can mean for people living in ottawa, local business along bank street and civic pride in an area as beautiful as Lansdowne.
What a shame.
April 7th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
So if I have it right, the City needs to take out a loan of $97 million to finance the renovation of Frank Clair and The Civic Centre. A lot less if the feds and the province would kick in some money as they have for the Aspers and Winnipeg.
The Lansdowne Live group would sign a contract obliging them to pick any cost over runs so the city is protected. The LL group would spend another $120 million on the other facilities at Lansdowne and $30 million on starting up a CFL team.
The City would save on the approximately three million per year it now costs to keep Lansdowne going. The City would get two and a half million in property taxes from Lansdowne Live. The combined total of five and a half million a year would go to pay down the $97 million, or less, debt. Without the need to raise taxes .
Is that it?
Is it not a similar model as the way our City is financing the new Convention Centre (formerly The Congress Centre)?
If so , as a property tax payer I think it is a fine way to solve the Lansdowne problem, and city councillors are blind if they can not see that.
April 7th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Mike–you have a point!!!
April 8th, 2009 at 12:37 am
It seems to me that Landsdowne park would be the better option : It’s multi-purpose, it seriously needs restoration anyway and it’s already there. It would also be the most eco-friendly solution.
It would be better to spend money and energy to do one great and impressive project as opposed to making two half-hearted projects. I think Ottawa needs more wow factor and Landsdowne park is a great opportunity to make some real positive changes. Especially if the building becomes a LEED project. I agree with Norman in that we should broaden our vision (perhaps become more of a leader as the capital of the country) and make Landsdowne park a place for all, that would attract tourists year round, bring more international artists and cater to sports fans. Let take this opportunity to make Landsdowne park an international landmark.
April 8th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Please note the final paragraph of the News Release.
One of the three pillars of your Governance Task Force Report is “Citizen Engagement” …and we talk-the-good-talk about a ‘change-of-culture,’ …..and ……yet the NR advises:
“City staff’s recommendations will be considered at another joint meeting of the Planning and Environment Committee and the Corporate Services and Economic Development Committee on Monday, April 20 to provide time for public consultation. Council will then consider the final report and recommendations at its regular meeting on Wednesday, April 22, 2009.”
While there have previously been some good opportunities for Public Consultation/input, now that we have more people’s attention, you are not sending the message that you intend to give much consideration to this last opportunity for Public Consultation. You must appreciate that scheduling the final Council decision less that 48 hours after a major Public Consultation does not permit either Staff or Councillors sufficient time for consideration of any significant new points. The timing certainly gives the impression that minds are not ‘open’ or that you do not expect meaningful input by the citizens!
April 8th, 2009 at 6:50 am
Marie
One knock aginst ottawa is its to much of a arts and culture city.There is aslo a double standard with the artss community.Its fine for there fun to get public money.But no when it comes to sports no they 100% aginst public funds.Lets aslo not forget there are some pushing for more cast for the arts a new music hall and a $200 million dollary library.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Mr. Mayor,
NO taxpayer $$$. If these groups want sports - let them create opportunity’s that are revenue driven and self-sustaining without government and taxpayer bailout/welfare. Baseball and Football are not sustainable and now others want Soccer?
Before other redevelopment:
Ottawa needs a 1st class Airport with many, many more direct international connections (right now one normally has to go through Toronto or Montreal to get to the EU). There is only a poor bus system and shuttles from and to the airport mainly to downtown or expensive taxis;
A 1st class Subway similar to Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Moscow and London (well London’s is about 3rd class) but still better than the bus system here.
Landsdowne is a valuable piece of property so let some rich entrepreneur buy it and make it run. This is not a role for civic government.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:52 am
The 67’s draw 6000+ fans 30+ nights a year - CFL would draw 20,000+ 8-10 games a year. This is not a minority of support. This city needs to recognize the value to the community of rebuilding Lansdowne. With Lansdowne Live they don’t have to go it alone - they can cover cost overruns and generate tax profit into the future. I don’t have faith in this city in getting something done on their own. I am a CFL fan - CFL at Lansdowne means something to me.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Let’s be clear. Landowne is NOT beautiful. The CANAL is beautiful. If one wants to revitalize the core, keeping parking lots and buildings used once per week is not the answer. The answer is a mix of affordable and premium housing, greenspace and retail - bascially more of the Glebe with more greenspace near the canel. THAT is jewel of Ottawa, not concrete, traffic jams and noise, which is what a sports stadium brings.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Back to the issue - why have any of these facilities if ordinary people have little interest in them and even if they do cannot get to them except by Car. I remember the horror’s when the Roughriders used to play. I am sure the Glebe residents are actually releieved.
Yes, it might create some jobs but would waste far more $$$ in doing so.
Building a Metro would create even more jobs and for long lasting positive effects for the environment.
I totally support fishymcdonk.
April 8th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Johann
You really beleave there is little interest in the 67s.There on of the best supported teams in the canadian hockey league.The rough riders did very well at the attendance wise untill they got sold and had issues with running the team.You can not just say bla sports we don’t need it.The fact is we do there are sports fans in ottawa and lots of them.Johann i have no idea how you claim it would be waisting money.Teams such as the senators do bring in millions of dollars each year.
April 8th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Reidjr
You might be right and I’m glad they are supported - but 6000 fans/night for 30 nights is not much given the overall population of the NCR. Given the transportation system - such as feeder buses and after peak time connections - anything there is a loss leader and just throwing more money into a broken system that benefits only a few.
Now getting to watch baseball was even worse and now a proposal for Soccer? What next?
I used to go to the Roughrider games back in the 80s/90s and the stands were far from full. Yes - when they got sold the management issues/diversions created many more distractions.
The Senators indeed bring in money and pride but again there is no real transportation system to get one there. I have to somehow go to a local bar and then get there. Not all people have cars. After a few here and there - not a receipe for MADD!
BUT build a better Mousetrap kinda thing?
Wasting money? Absolutely for given the salaries of the players - these teams would not survive without government assistance/concessions and, given GM, Chrysler and other companies such as Nortel in financial meltdown etc - this is not the time to cater to the whim and imagination of entrepreneurs who normally need others to help fund their latest “idea”.
April 8th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Johann
For the ohl to avg anything over 6000 is real good.Here is an exzample ottawa avg just under 7 thousand a game this year.Toronto the biggest city in the league with 2 team each avg around 2 thousand a game.In total ottawa is a top 10 team in the canadian hockey leaguie attendance wise that says alot.I am one i think arts and sports should not get funded at all via public money.But thats not how it is arts gets funded so really is it fair not to atlease help out a sports team in some way.Back to the ohl most teams avg 4,000 or less a game some are havering around 1000.
April 8th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Sell Landsdowne to the highest bidder (the City needs the money) and put the “entertainment centre” where it should be, Le Breton flats. Any hope of an entertainment facility succeeding will need to be served by proper transit. Also major hotels and bars and restaurants need to be within walking distance and yes it will need parking. Landsdowne can’t provide any of this.
Also please don’t use my hard earned dollars to make the rich richer. Fix the potholes clean up Rideau Street, improve our police service and let the free-market provide us with our entertainment. We will choose with our wallets.
April 9th, 2009 at 6:45 am
67’s attendance is closer to 8000 and they play 24 home games (notice Joe added a plus sign at the end of this figures to indicate that he was illustrating a worst case scenario). In addition to the football team’s attendance, the University of Ottawa football program also plays there. And it’s difficult to account for, but the bubble over the field allows it to be used over the winter as well. This “once a week” stuff is innacurate.
Building Lansdown Park as little more than a park would be a waste because many people already have access to park areas. If Lansdowne Park is meant to be “enjoyed by everyone” then it has to offer a number of entertainment options. “More of the Glebe” is not the answer because it provides nothing new, and no cause for someone to come all the way across town for. Sporting events, concerts, trade shows, etc, do.
April 9th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Correction of a typo: The 67’s play 34 home games.
April 9th, 2009 at 9:40 am
.
I came to weigh in on the stadium issue and come in swinging, but it seems I don’t have to. The people in this forum (for the most part) have argued so convincingly in favour of Lansdowne Live that I don’t know what else there is to say. From what I understand, Mayor Larry and council are trying to get an Asper-type deal out of the Hunt group, where David Asper put $100M toward the stadium and only $35M was required from taxpayers. I followed the situation closely in Winnipeg, and I think it’s important for Ottawa city council to understand that they are in a very different bargaining position than their counterparts in Manitoba. First, the site of the new stadium in Winnipeg is undeveloped lands at the university, not a crumbling collection of buildings that the city sinks $3.8M into every year. The city had best understand that the status quo in Ottawa is much more painful than the one in Winnipeg, and must keep this in mind when bargaining for an equitable distribution of rents. The second point is that the land that the current stadium sits on will be SOLD to Asper instead of leased. There is a big difference. Already, the Lansdowne Live groups has pledged to invest $120M into an asset that they ultimately WILL NOT OWN. This restricts their freedom in developing and managing the site, and so the Ottawa deal cannot be considered as financially valuable as the one in Winnipeg.
April 9th, 2009 at 9:44 am
In case anyone’s interested, here is an interview with Jeff Hunt where the idea behind the financing of Lansdowne Live has been put in simple, understandable terms. In my opinion it is quite reasonable, but perhaps the Mayor or one of the posters against the stadium idea could listen and point out to the rest of us where the flaws are.
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20090407_195538_6772
April 9th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
It is time to build a stadium at Lansdowne that can have a CFL football team, a MLS soccer team as well as amateur sports. Put a bubble on it like the Winnipeg scenario and it will be a year round sports facility.
The 2 groups should work together with the city and make this a reality.
Mayor, keep up the excellent work you have done so far in trying to get this off the ground, i am sure you will get the best deal for everyone in the end.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
The ACC and the Rogers Centre are located at Union Station in Downtown Toronto. Transit links include the Gardener expressway, TTC subway and Ontario Go Rail Transit. Therefore in Ottawa terms, Bayview Yards wins handsdown.
End of discussion. Forget LeBretton flats and the NCC and forget the unsolicted bids with private interests.
This is all about what is best for the City of Ottawa!!
Marcus
April 9th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Marcus
A few things wrong with that.
1)While i do agree the complex should be where its best for the city.HOwever these groups are well known and are putting millions of there own money in to these projects.
2)Ottawa is so far behind other city in canada in sports wise its not even funny.Take minor sports at the very least we need 4 new 24 pad arenas 200 new soccer fields.
3)Again it comes back to ottawa needs a stadium and needs a arena.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:43 am
Here’s a line from the report from earlier this week:
“At the far end of the spectrum, complete replacement of the stadium and arena carries an estimated capital cost of $185 million and an associated life of 70 years.”
For anyone who proposes building elsewhere, I’d like to hear your suggestions as to how the city should pay for it, as well as how you think Lansdowne Park should be fixed, and where the money will come from to accomplish that task.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:06 am
I find there is a double standard in ottawa.If its anything but sports people have little issue with tax payer money going to it.But anything sports no we can not have any public money involved.
April 11th, 2009 at 6:48 am
New Harris/Decima Poll done for the OttawaSun—margin of error, 4.4%, 19/20 times–concerning City Funding of a stadium.
20% support funding LL
16% support funding Kanata stadium
29% support funding both
31% support funding none
When asked if they had to choose one, which one?
58% chose LL
32% chose Kanata stadium
7% said neither
3% did not answer
32% said they would attend CFL games
31% said they would attend MLS games
All this is consistent with an Ekos poll done last December.
Important point is that 31% opposed the city funding a stadium. A clear majority supported city funding.
Will Ottawa City Council listen to the people?
April 12th, 2009 at 7:23 am
I think the only way to have both soccer and football there would be a two level stadium, soccer on the ground level and football on the second level. The design could have the roof to either open and close or have permanent panels that can open. The ground floor “walls” could have similar design. This would create a massive opportunity for both franchises and the community. Jobs at the facility would be doubled, and tourism and hospitality industry’s would benefit as well. Any engineers out there with thoughts on this idea? And on another topic please take a moment to sign this petition to help protect our children. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/change-sex-offender-laws
April 13th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Mike,
You forgot to mention the sample size. 31% of what?
April 13th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Mike,
Why this is so wrong. It is not their money so why not go for the full monty or Monette in this case
From the Ottawa Sun:
“After a city staff report received an unenthusiastic response from a special council committee last Monday, O’Brien has had discussions with Senators Sports & Entertainment, which wants three levels of government to fund a new $110-million stadium in Kanata for an MLS team, and the Lansdowne Live group, which wants the city to invest $97 million to renovate Frank Clair Stadium for a CFL team.
One scenario, according to Orleans Coun. Bob Monette, is to tear down Frank Clair Stadium and the Civic Centre and build a new arena for the 67’s.
“It would cost about $65 million for a new arena, why not go the full $97 million and do the stadium, too?” Monette said. “
April 14th, 2009 at 11:33 am
We really need a arena about 10,000 for the 67s.In other citys such as toronto they could get away with a 6,000 seat arena as there is very little interest.
April 14th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
At this point, it is clear we need to rebuild Lansdowne Park WITH Frank Clair stadium on the Lansdowne site as well. NOT at Kanata.
April 14th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Knata while some may not like it is not that bad.
April 14th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Rebuild with Lansdowne Live! The only solution that makes sense and has a chance of some actual progress for Ottawa.
April 14th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I would not say landsdown is the only choice that makes sense.A complex in kanata aslo can be very good for ottawa.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Johann
An opinion poll is a survey of public opinion from a particular sample. Opinion polls are usually designed to represent the opinions of a population by conducting a series of questions and then extrapolating generalities in ratio or within confidence intervals
The sample size in this poll is big enough to result in a margin of error of 4.4% (confidence interval), nineteen out of twenty times (for a confidence level of 95%).
Polls such as this are used everyday by governments, newspapers, and private business to ascertain public opinion.
They use them, and often base decisions on them, because they have confidence they are accurate within the stated margin of error.There is no reason to suggest that this Harris/Decima poll is any less accurate than all the other polls which daily influence government and private sector decisions.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:32 am
If the reports I read about today in he Ottawa Citizen are accurate, then Ottawa city council and Mayor Obrian have just made an astoundingly stupid deal based on premises that do not even remotely resemble reality.
Mr Melynk’s opinion is that the CFL will be dead within 25 years. He will not take on a CFL franchise. Even if he did, for whatever reason, nobody cared to mention this little swap to the CFL. Given the bashing of Canadian football done by Melnyk in the media for the past few months, I doubt they would ever approve of this transfer or have him as an owner. Supposing, for whatever wil reason, that the CFL DID approve the transfer, Melnyk won’t build the stadium unless he gets his precious MLS franchise. From everything I’ve observed, that’s never going to happen. Suppose (and I know I’ve already demanded a lot of crazy supposing) that Ottawa eventually IS awarded an MLS franchise, it would be LONG after the conditional CFL franchise expires.
Congratulations, City of Ottawa. If those reports are true, it looks like your representatives have surprised us once again at their inability to rationally evaluate evidence and reach a well informed conclusion. No CFL football… PROBABLY no MLS franchise… and MOST PROBABLY no new stadium.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
To add to what Mike said, because I find that whole notion absurd (assuming it’s even accurate) as well, Mike recently posted this:
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When asked if they had to choose one, which one?
58% chose LL
32% chose Kanata stadium
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This is at least the second such poll stating that the majority prefer the Lansdowne Live proposal and/or a stadium at Lansdowne Park. So what does the mayor do? Try to work out a deal for a stadium in Kanata. Head-scratcher.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Dan
I have no idea where you get the idea no mls team would ever come here.Mls has made it very clear if ottawa had a stadium they would be very interested in comming here.To take it a step farther i truly beleave if melynk does get the ok for the stadium melynk could bid for a 2013 expanson team .Or he could buy a team and move it here maybe even as soon as 2011.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
No stadium needed for Lansdowne hey? Why Kanata should get everything but almost nothing for downtown? Most US and even Canadian cities have most of the professional sports in or near downtown. Only Ottawa has among the Canadian cities its NHL outside of downtown and it’s not even close.
How about Lebreton Flats? Right by downtown and close to the Transitway as opposed as in the middle of nowhere. Perfect opportunities for plenty of new businesses and employment in addition to the residential/condo development planned. The city will be more winner with a venue in Lebreton Flats then somewhere miles and miles away from the core. It would also be closer for the people in the east end, close to larger areas of population and also much closer for people in Gatineau.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
reidjr
MLS says a lot of things. Don Garber went to every potential expansion city and gushed over the proposal and ownership group. It’s in their interest to keep a lot of groups bidding, even if they have no intention of going to that market. Lots of bidders means lots of demand. Lots of demand means high expansion fees. Lots of demand means increases in the value of existing franchises.
MLS did not “make it clear” that Ottawa would be in. They gave Ottawa a little wink and tickle, something encouraging but completely noncommital, to keep thier hopes up and keep them bidding so that when Montreal, New York II, or Miami comes along, Don Garber can justify charging $40M. It’s called bargaining power.
Unfortunately, it seems a few of Ottawans fell in love after that wink and tickle. Sorry Ottawa, but “he’s just not that into you.”
April 16th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Cra47
Downtown to kanata is not as far as some to be making it out to be.No its not miles and miles away you can get from downtown to kanata in just under 40 minutes.Again no kanata is not even close in beeing in the middle of no where.400,000 people live in the west end and 600,000 live in the east end and the core.I have seen some comments where people think kanata has a small population but don’t take in its not that small and the othe areas around it.By you comments i take it you don’t care about the west but want to team to cater to the east end and gatineau that is a issues as you can’t really do that and expect fan support.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Jyame… not sure where you are getting those numbers. Kanata/Stittsville population is about 100,000.
April 17th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Peter
Kanata is about 90,000
Stittsville is about 30,000
Nepean is about 200,000
April 17th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Hi;
Make a decision that the taxpayers will not have to pay for. Let the interested groups decide what they want and pay the price.
Personally, I would likely want to help out with Soccer, but let us not turn this into a City Run Project. It will cost too much and be too expensive to even use…………………..just look at how much recreation and all other fees have soared under this City council. I say this Council as there are only a few new faces since amalgamation.
Keep me, the taxpayer, off the tab.
April 18th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Sandra
Part of the reason rec fees are so much is because we are lacking in arenas/fields etc.As for tax payers money i am not sure if some don’t know or not.But for the money the city pust out they get back plus a more.So in the long run the city would be better off then it is today.Now with that said ok you don’t want money going to stadiums fine then give them a tax break.You jyst have to keep in mind the city would not gain as much as if they did help fund the stadium.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
On Lansdowne, why would we be willing to spend over $100 million for a football franchise that has folded a few times cause people don’t want to go see it. The attendance isn’t there. I think Lansdowne would be better served by a private/public partnership to redevelop the land for a park/greenspace/housing. Let Melnyk build a stadium in Kanata. He has shown he can Run sports franchises, St. Mikes Majors, Ottawa Senators. Why would he not be given a chance to build/run a soccer team (Largest played sport in the world).
Although I think there is an argument there that the city can’t really support another pro franchise. A few baseball teams, couple football teams. The city barely supported the Sens when they weren’t doing well.
I see better places to put $100 Million of taxpayers $$ than a sports franchise.
April 21st, 2009 at 6:40 am
Cmr
1)One thing to keep in mind is the rens did not fold they had the franchise rights revoked.Attendance was not really a issue.
2)As for baseball yes its true the lynx left due to attendance but the can-am team did really good at the gate.
April 21st, 2009 at 6:43 am
As for the senators they avg about 14,000 when they went bankrupt i would not say the city barley supported them.The fact os f the matter is ottawa has alot of green space more then any other major city in canada.With the stadium again cfl for many years got great support in ottawa.Now with all that said at the very leaset a new arena needs to be buil.t