The case for Lansdowne Live
This past week, after a great deal of consideration and dialogue with members of Council and the public, I have concluded that the best option for rejuvenating Lansdowne Park is to develop an effective partnership with the Lansdowne Live group.
The Lansdowne Live group includes Roger Greenberg, Bill Shenkman, John Ruddy and Jeff Hunt. Together these individuals represent the skills and the financial resources to revitalize Lansdowne Park and repair the damage that has resulted from 20 years of neglect.
Lansdowne is our “people’s park” and it should be an exciting, vital gathering place for all of Ottawa. The Park has played that role since 1866 and I, for one, want to continue that heritage and maintain an important tradition for all of Ottawa. The Lansdowne Live proposal offers us that opportunity in a timely and affordable way.
The proposal for revitalization provides us with a 25,000 seat outdoor stadium that can be home to football, soccer, concerts and large outdoor meetings. The proposal also brings alive the Bank Street retail space in a way that enhances the Glebe and the entire city. We also will have enhanced green space and community space along the world heritage Rideau Canal.
The Lansdowne Live proposal will entail a lot of effort to become a reality, but the value equation for the City is sufficient to make that work meaningful. The benefits are many and the cost of doing nothing is simply unacceptable for a Capital city of a G8 nation.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am
Maybe we should forget about the stadium for now.Lets build a new 12,000 seat arena that would be the home for the 67s.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:58 am
Other Capital cities of G8 (even G20) nations have Metros and rail even from the International airport.
Ottawa has buses - even from the airport.
Shameful.
April 21st, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Yes and and almost ever other g20 nation has a stadium.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:19 pm
reidjr,
So we agree. First things first and priorities.
First LRT and a Metro - then stadium for sports which incidentally all came after transportation in the countries mentioned.
Turn Landsdowne park into a protest centre - heck - even today the Tamils drew over 20,000 and they provided their own buses.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:52 pm
I do not think those other capital cities of the G8 have a population under one million like we do. You need a certain critical mass to support a metro. However, I think Ottawa is on the right track,pardon the pun,by building a tunnel through the downtown core to get transit vehicles of the surface. A mini metro so to speak.
If the Province would build a GO train system, as they have in the GTA, to connect Ottawa and the valley bedroom towns, that would help too.
I also see that an Action Sandy Hill member has suggested putting a tunnel under King Edward Avenue to handle the truck traffic there. An interesting idea.
Ottawa can handle a modest size 25,000-30,000 seat stadium as proposed for Lansdowne. A downtown transit tunnel and a downtown stadium will be great for Ottawa. So thanks for getting on board for both Mayor!
From all I have heard, uOttawa will be soon be proposing to build a 3000-5000 seat stadium and a new Gymnasium Complex in the area of the Mann-Nicholas Gateway Precinct. With a student population of some 36,000 uOttawa has fallen far behind other large universities in Ontario in the area of athletic facilities to attract top students, who value fitness as well as academics. I hope that this project will soon go forward as well.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Mike,
The Metros of cities such as Paris, Amsterdam, London, Madrid, Berlin and so on were all started well before they had 1 million people. Heavans/oh the Shame - even Toronto and Montreal have them.
Paris started in 1900 and it’s population was about 100,000 so enough of the excuses.
No public money.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
MIke
Ottawa population is 1.2 million.
Johann
While i agree a lrt should come before a stadium.Ottawa needs a new arena in the next 6 months for the 67s.
April 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pm
A stadium at Lansdowne for both football and soccer (+ renovated arena for 67’s) with park space is definitely the way to go. I’m glad some of our politicians can clearly see this…
April 21st, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Finally we may see some action with Landsdowne park. I think the majority of people in the city really want to see this project move ahead but few believe that it will happen, after years of inaction we have become very jaded. Maybe things are about to change. Good Job Mr. O’Brien for getting things started.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Johann .Our metro ,with the downtown tunnel, as the first component is starting before Ottawa is at million people too. There will be a larger underground transit system long after I am permanently underground. All those other cities started their metros a long time ago and then grew their underground larger over a period of a hundred years or more,as the cities grew. Ottawa, which is only about 150 years old, will follow the same pattern.
reidjr–that 1.2 million figure is for the National Capital Region which includes, Ottawa and Gatineau and some surrounding towns. The City of Ottawa has a population of something like 840,000 . It is that 840,000 that will bear the cost of Ottawa’s transit plan and Ottawa’s stadium; hopefully with help from the feds and the Province of Ontario. I am pretty sure it will be more economical to repair the Civic Center and rebuild the stadium at the same time. One work force on site for both projects, sharing of equipment; and do not forget the stadium and Civic Center are structurally integrated. The North side Grandstand and the Civic Centre are both supported by the same large steel beams.
April 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 am
Yes to new 67’s stadium. No to Minto land grab. They aren’t footing the bill for the important part anyways. They will be making a fortune off of our land, and for what? Please Larry, don’t make me regret my vote!
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:10 am
MIchael
Name me one arena or stadium in canada that does not have some public money or tax break or land given to them.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
Hi Jay,
I am FOR a new or refurbished stadium. I know we tax payers will be footing the bill of this new stadium (I’m fine with that, and that will happen even if Minto is involved), my issue is that we are giving land to Minto for 30 years and they are not the ones investing the money in the stadium. The money that Minto is investing is in retail, which will make them money, I don’t see them benefiting this project enough to warrant their involvement at this time. I like Jeff Hunt and his passion for Ottawa sports, I’d rather negotiate with him directly on his needs for Landsdown park.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:53 am
“Lansdowne is our “people’s park” and it should be an exciting, vital gathering place for all of Ottawa. The Park has played that role since 1866 and I, for one, want to continue that heritage and maintain an important tradition for all of Ottawa. The Lansdowne Live proposal offers us that opportunity in a timely and affordable way.
The proposal for revitalization provides us with a 25,000 seat outdoor stadium that can be home to football, soccer, concerts and large outdoor meetings. The proposal also brings alive the Bank Street retail space in a way that enhances the Glebe and the entire city. We also will have enhanced green space and community space along the world heritage Rideau Canal.”
I understand that you are interested in ambitious development projects for the city. I agree that it would add to Ottawa’s profile as a city to have a LRT system and a new outdoor stadium. But it sounds like council is rushing into this proposal just for the sake of doing something with Lansdowne. Think about your reasons for supporting Lansdowne Live. “Brings alive the Bank Street retail space”? The Bank Street retail space is already flourishing, but the small businesses that characterize the Glebe and Ottawa South will suffer if the proposed mall is built. The green space and community space is nice, but it’s not as much as we would be getting with an international design competition to make Lansdowne a real park. You say that Lansdowne is a “people’s park,” but I don’t seem to understand how building a mall that no one wants helps to enhance that role.
Then there’s the stadium, located in a place that does not have the infrastructure to support it and where residents don’t want it. I liked it when you suggested Bayview Yards as a location, even though other councillors thought it was a distraction to the process, because your reasons were right on - neither the Lansdowne nor Kanata locations are optimal for a stadium! Why choose one of two poor alternatives? Is that what one expects from the capital of a G8 country?
I can see how you were in a tough place politically. There were, after all, only two options, neither side would budge, and a decision needed to be made between those two options. But this is shaping up to be one of the biggest land-grabs in the history of Ottawa - at this point, I imagine the developers are laughing their way to the bank. You are giving them access to the best real estate in Ottawa for essentially nothing. When Greenberg said that he was going to walk, you should have let him walk - he wouldn’t have, because he knows that this is a goldmine of an opportunity - but instead, you caved.
To the voters, it looks like the bottom line is that council accepted a bad proposal because their hand was forced by Greenberg’s pressure tactics. I know you want to do something about Lansdowne, but this is not the right solution - the international design competition is. It may look like Lansdowne Live is killing two birds with one stone, but in the end the result is a stadium in a community without the infrastructure to support it, less green space, and a mall that will be a more detrimental than beneficial to the community. The people who profit the most are the developers.
“The Lansdowne Live proposal will entail a lot of effort to become a reality, but the value equation for the City is sufficient to make that work meaningful. The benefits are many and the cost of doing nothing is simply unacceptable for a Capital city of a G8 nation.”
This concluding remark seems to reinforce the notion that the only reason this plan is going forward is because it’s better than nothing. Which does not inspire confidence. I’m not against development, but this is not smart growth.
April 24th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Alex
I do not beleave at this time the international competition is the way to go.Part of the reason is sure there may be great ideas out there but in some cases those groups may not have the funds to back it up.No i would not say this is the biggest land grab in the history of ottawa.What some don’t get is deals like this are very very common in canada and happen alot.As for those in the glebe who wanted the rest of ottawa to fund a park i was aginst that for many reason.The biggest is it would cost millions a year to run with little comming back.With all fo that said is this the best deal maybe maybe not i would have liked a deal where for now a new arena was built and then a few years from now look at a stadium.
April 25th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Good points all!
I would like to comment on process and the City’s cost of rebuilding the stadium. The cost of refurbishing the stadium and the Civic Centre will be about $97M.
First off, we already spend about $4 M just keeping what is there functioning. Second, we will generate about $2.2 M from taxes on the retail space. That leaves us enough cash flow to finance about $75M and we need to find additional cash to pay for the remaining $22M and that will be covered by our share of the profit from the retail space rental.The purpose of our 60 day partnership negotiation is to vet these numbers and detail the types and kinds of buildings we will need to make this happen.
The issue is how do we split the returned from the retail leases. We have agreed in principal to a revenue sharing formula based on ROI that will help offset the investment cost of rebuilding the stadium.
April 26th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Now that the City has decided to negotiate with Lansdowne Live, I see that Dalton McGuinty was quoted in the Citizen the other day as saying that the province would consider contributing funds .
Both the Feds and the Province contributed money to build BMO Field in Toronto, and the Feds and Province of Manitoba have agreed to contribute toward Winnipeg’s new stadium. We could see a similar scenario begin to take shape here in Ottawa.
If it does, we will have a particularly good solution to the problem of Lansdowne and the need for a stadium. One that is quite friendly to the property tax payers of Ottawa, like me.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Unfortunately $97M is only the start, Mr Mayor. You need to add $30M just to increase parking on the site to woefully inadequate. Without that spending, the stadium has over 21 seats per parking space.
Next you need to add the extra $28M that city staff estimate the stadium refurbishment will cost. I know the developers say they will renovate the stadium for a fixed price, but it is standard practice for the project managers to be given a mandate to increase a contracts cost, by means of scope changes, so there is no doubt that the cost will rise to at least what city staff project.
So now we are paying $155M of taxpayer’s money to put a stadium in a ludicrus setting, where it is opposed by many, many local residents and businesses, in a sole-sourced procurement exercise (apparently sole-sourced because the developers are the only ones with a conditional CFL franchise - but this is not about sport, we keep being told).
Hopefully council comes to it’s senses at the end of 60 days and kills this ill-thoughtout project.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Dave
No at the most it would be $97 million not $150 million as some claim.The issue at the very least is ottawa needs a new arena 12,000-16,000 would be ideal.